On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:32:19 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 20, 11:20*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:48:53 -0500, John H wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:27:36 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
news:_5edncfzv5TolujUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthli nk.com...
...from the news photos so far from the inaugural celebrations:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/Ali.jpg

Heh. *You have to be kidding.

Eisboch

Not at all. I've always been a big fan of Ali. It's good to see him still
smiling, despite all that has befallen him.

A draft dodger just like you.

A draft dodger? * No. * He was a legitimate consciences objector and paid
the price.
No. *He was not a draft dodger.

Eisboch

In 1964, Cassius Clay took the Armed Forces Qualification Test. In 1964,
Cassius Clay announced his membership in the Black Muslims. He became a
follower of Malcom X. He then, when inducted, used his religion as a basis
for his pacifism.

Sounds fishy to me.

Follow the bouncing ball.

WWII ended with a couple of big booms. Too big to ever get out of control.

Korea ended with enough bodies sold.

Vietnam ended with more than enough bodies sold.

Gulf War ended with enough bodies sold.

Kosavo's bodies sold to United Nations.

Iraq and Afganistan will end when enough bodies are sold.

Some are not for sale.

You were sold! You was a lucky one. You were in all the wrong places at
the right time.

Sounds fishy to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, I understand your point, but I hope you didn't pull any muscles
getting there...

Explanation for us dummies, please?
--
John H

*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. *

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:06:58 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote:

On Jan 20, 12:11*pm, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:32:19 -0800 (PST),
wrote:





On Jan 20, 11:20*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:48:53 -0500, John H wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:27:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
news:_5edncfzv5TolujUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthli nk.com...
...from the news photos so far from the inaugural
celebrations:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/Ali.jpg

Heh. *You have to be kidding.

Eisboch

Not at all. I've always been a big fan of Ali. It's good to see
him still smiling, despite all that has befallen him.

A draft dodger just like you.

A draft dodger? * No. * He was a legitimate consciences objector
and paid the price.
No. *He was not a draft dodger.

Eisboch

In 1964, Cassius Clay took the Armed Forces Qualification Test. In
1964, Cassius Clay announced his membership in the Black Muslims.
He became a follower of Malcom X. He then, when inducted, used his
religion as a basis for his pacifism.

Sounds fishy to me.

Follow the bouncing ball.

WWII ended with a couple of big booms. Too big to ever get out of
control.

Korea ended with enough bodies sold.

Vietnam ended with more than enough bodies sold.

Gulf War ended with enough bodies sold.

Kosavo's bodies sold to United Nations.

Iraq and Afghanistan will end when enough bodies are sold.

Some are not for sale.

You were sold! You was a lucky one. You were in all the wrong places
at the right time.

Sounds fishy to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, I understand your point, but I hope you didn't pull any muscles
getting there...

Explanation for us dummies, please?
--
John H


I think his point was somewhat of a stretch...

Cheney was not for sale to the military industrial complex that robs the
treasury. He was in on the robbery. Same with Blackwater and other
vendors. No stretch to it. You don't understand that you were not in on it.

You were sold if you don't survive wars.

On Jan 21, 8:47*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:06:58 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote:
On Jan 20, 12:11*pm, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:32:19 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 20, 11:20*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:48:53 -0500, John H wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:27:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
news:_5edncfzv5TolujUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthli nk.com...
...from the news photos so far from the inaugural
celebrations:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/Ali.jpg

Heh. *You have to be kidding.

Eisboch

Not at all. I've always been a big fan of Ali. It's good to see
him still smiling, despite all that has befallen him.

A draft dodger just like you.

A draft dodger? * No. * He was a legitimate consciences objector
and paid the price.
No. *He was not a draft dodger.

Eisboch

In 1964, Cassius Clay took the Armed Forces Qualification Test. In
1964, Cassius Clay announced his membership in the Black Muslims.
He became a follower of Malcom X. He then, when inducted, used his
religion as a basis for his pacifism.

Sounds fishy to me.

Follow the bouncing ball.

WWII ended with a couple of big booms. Too big to ever get out of
control.

Korea ended with enough bodies sold.

Vietnam ended with more than enough bodies sold.

Gulf War ended with enough bodies sold.

Kosavo's bodies sold to United Nations.

Iraq and Afghanistan will end when enough bodies are sold.

Some are not for sale.

You were sold! You was a lucky one. You were in all the wrong places
at the right time.

Sounds fishy to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, I understand your point, but I hope you didn't pull any muscles
getting there...

Explanation for us dummies, please?
--
John H

I think his point was somewhat of a stretch...

Cheney was not for sale to the military industrial complex that robs the
treasury. He was in on the robbery. Same with Blackwater and other
vendors. No stretch to it. You don't understand that you were not in on it.

On Jan 20, 12:11*pm, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:32:19 -0800 (PST),
wrote:





On Jan 20, 11:20*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:48:53 -0500, John H wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:27:36 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
news:_5edncfzv5TolujUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthli nk.com...
...from the news photos so far from the inaugural celebrations:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/Ali.jpg

Heh. *You have to be kidding.

Eisboch

Not at all. I've always been a big fan of Ali. It's good to see him still
smiling, despite all that has befallen him.

A draft dodger just like you.

A draft dodger? * No. * He was a legitimate consciences objector and paid
the price.
No. *He was not a draft dodger.

Eisboch

In 1964, Cassius Clay took the Armed Forces Qualification Test. In 1964,
Cassius Clay announced his membership in the Black Muslims. He became a
follower of Malcom X. He then, when inducted, used his religion as a basis
for his pacifism.

Sounds fishy to me.

Follow the bouncing ball.

WWII ended with a couple of big booms. Too big to ever get out of control.

Korea ended with enough bodies sold.

Vietnam ended with more than enough bodies sold.

Gulf War ended with enough bodies sold.

Kosavo's bodies sold to United Nations.

Iraq and Afganistan will end when enough bodies are sold.

Some are not for sale.

You were sold! You was a lucky one. You were in all the wrong places at
the right time.

Sounds fishy to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, I understand your point, but I hope you didn't pull any muscles
getting there...

Explanation for us dummies, please?
--
John H

*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd kind of like to hear this explained too! I read it three times and
it just doesn't make any sense to me!

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 06:00:35 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 21, 8:47*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:06:58 -0800, justwaitafrekinminute wrote:
On Jan 20, 12:11*pm, John H wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:32:19 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Jan 20, 11:20*am, RLM wrote:
On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:48:53 -0500, John H wrote:
On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:27:36 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...
hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
news:_5edncfzv5TolujUnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@earthli nk.com...
...from the news photos so far from the inaugural
celebrations:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b287/hank100/Ali.jpg

Heh. *You have to be kidding.

Eisboch

Not at all. I've always been a big fan of Ali. It's good to see
him still smiling, despite all that has befallen him.

A draft dodger just like you.

A draft dodger? * No. * He was a legitimate consciences objector
and paid the price.
No. *He was not a draft dodger.

Eisboch

In 1964, Cassius Clay took the Armed Forces Qualification Test. In
1964, Cassius Clay announced his membership in the Black Muslims.
He became a follower of Malcom X. He then, when inducted, used his
religion as a basis for his pacifism.

Sounds fishy to me.

Follow the bouncing ball.

WWII ended with a couple of big booms. Too big to ever get out of
control.

Korea ended with enough bodies sold.

Vietnam ended with more than enough bodies sold.

Gulf War ended with enough bodies sold.

Kosavo's bodies sold to United Nations.

Iraq and Afghanistan will end when enough bodies are sold.

Some are not for sale.

You were sold! You was a lucky one. You were in all the wrong places
at the right time.

Sounds fishy to me.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Uh, I understand your point, but I hope you didn't pull any muscles
getting there...

Explanation for us dummies, please?
--
John H

I think his point was somewhat of a stretch...

Cheney was not for sale to the military industrial complex that robs the
treasury. He was in on the robbery. Same with Blackwater and other
vendors. No stretch to it. You don't understand that you were not in on it.

You were sold if you don't survive wars.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

While I appreciate your elevated enlightenment, I still think it's a
stretch... So be it.. I have no qarrel with you...

ditto. I'm feeling really stupid, 'cause I still don't understand that I
don't understand that I was not in on it, or that I would have been sold if
I didn't survive the war.
--
John H

*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. *

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:25:27 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
news


Yeah, Tim, he is. Ali is still the greatest. I closely followed the
heavyweight division since the days of Floyd Patterson until the 1990s,
and there was never ever anyone as good as Ali at his best.


With that we completely agree.

My brother, who is almost 6 years younger than I, often have this debate.
He thinks Ali was a media sports star and not a real fighter. When I
recall the battles he fought and the ultimate athleticism in which he did
it, there is no contest in my mind.

One only has to watch the Ali-Frazier fights to understand that.

The "Thrilla in Manila" was one of the classic heavyweight fights of
all time.

And in my opinion, if Frazier's corner hadn't stopped the fight in the
14th round, Frazier would have pulled it out and won.

I know it.

Then again, I still say that Mookie Wilson would have beaten Buckner
to First Base even if Buckner had caught the ball. :)

--

"The superfluous, a very necessary thing."

Voltaire

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:25:27 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
news


Yeah, Tim, he is. Ali is still the greatest. I closely followed the
heavyweight division since the days of Floyd Patterson until the 1990s,
and there was never ever anyone as good as Ali at his best.


With that we completely agree.

My brother, who is almost 6 years younger than I, often have this debate.
He thinks Ali was a media sports star and not a real fighter. When I
recall the battles he fought and the ultimate athleticism in which he did
it, there is no contest in my mind.

I had to scrounge around to find this, but it's a great article on
Ali/Frazier...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=3065738

--

"Far better it is to dare mighty things,
to win glorious triumphs even though
checkered by failure, than to rank with
those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor
suffer much because they live in the gray
twilight that knows neither victory nor
defeat."

Theodore Roosevelt

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:12:10 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:25:27 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
newsMSdnQ38MdNshujUnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink. com...


Yeah, Tim, he is. Ali is still the greatest. I closely followed the
heavyweight division since the days of Floyd Patterson until the 1990s,
and there was never ever anyone as good as Ali at his best.


With that we completely agree.

My brother, who is almost 6 years younger than I, often have this debate.
He thinks Ali was a media sports star and not a real fighter. When I
recall the battles he fought and the ultimate athleticism in which he did
it, there is no contest in my mind.

One only has to watch the Ali-Frazier fights to understand that.

Ali was the best HW. But Larry Holmes was pretty close, and given his
title defenses should be a legend himself. Reason he never got much
respect is that birdbrain Howie Cosell was still calling fights, and
given his idolatry of Ali, he ran down Holmes every chance he got.
I haven't even watched a HW fight in years, given the quality now
compared to bygone eras.

--Vic

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:54:20 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 00:12:10 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:25:27 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"hk" wrote in message
newsMSdnQ38MdNshujUnZ2dnUVZ_vudnZ2d@earthlink .com...


Yeah, Tim, he is. Ali is still the greatest. I closely followed the
heavyweight division since the days of Floyd Patterson until the 1990s,
and there was never ever anyone as good as Ali at his best.


With that we completely agree.

My brother, who is almost 6 years younger than I, often have this debate.
He thinks Ali was a media sports star and not a real fighter. When I
recall the battles he fought and the ultimate athleticism in which he did
it, there is no contest in my mind.

One only has to watch the Ali-Frazier fights to understand that.

Ali was the best HW. But Larry Holmes was pretty close, and given his
title defenses should be a legend himself. Reason he never got much
respect is that birdbrain Howie Cosell was still calling fights, and
given his idolatry of Ali, he ran down Holmes every chance he got.
I haven't even watched a HW fight in years, given the quality now
compared to bygone eras.

Eh - I don't know about that. Homes was certainly a good fighter and
worthy of Hall of Fame inclusion, but you have to remember he spent a
lot of his time in the IBF fighting heavyweight chumps.

In my opinion, the two greatest of our era had to be Ali and Frazier.

For the record, I gave up on professional boxing after Hagler got
hosed in his bout with Ray Leonard - who was a total fraud as a boxer.
I think Hagler, if he had won that fight, would have been recognized
at the greatest professional fighter of all time.

--

"Never fight an inanimate object."

P.J. O'Rourke

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:21:43 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:54:20 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:



Ali was the best HW. But Larry Holmes was pretty close, and given his
title defenses should be a legend himself. Reason he never got much
respect is that birdbrain Howie Cosell was still calling fights, and
given his idolatry of Ali, he ran down Holmes every chance he got.
I haven't even watched a HW fight in years, given the quality now
compared to bygone eras.

Eh - I don't know about that. Homes was certainly a good fighter and
worthy of Hall of Fame inclusion, but you have to remember he spent a
lot of his time in the IBF fighting heavyweight chumps.

Politics. He would fight anybody.
And they ALL fought plenty of bums.
Should have kept his mouth shut about Marciano's jockstrap.
But he was one of the few fighters that would alert the ref to stop
the fight when his opponent had it.
And he had the best jab - bar none.

In my opinion, the two greatest of our era had to be Ali and Frazier.

Everybody's got an opinion (-:
I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

For the record, I gave up on professional boxing after Hagler got
hosed in his bout with Ray Leonard - who was a total fraud as a boxer.
I think Hagler, if he had won that fight, would have been recognized
at the greatest professional fighter of all time.

I agree that Hagler was hosed, but Leonard was a terrific fighter.
Hagler suffered from the Leonard idolatry.
I was skeptical early on, because nobody had tagged him.
My contention was until that happened he wasn't proven.
We watched the Leanord/Hearns bout live, and I remember jumping
up yelling when Hearns clipped Leanord's jaw with a long right and
Leonard's knees wobbled. I thought my "feet of clay" theory might be
right. Nope. Leonard came back. Heart of a lion.
Probably my favorite fight.
And despite his "no mas" disaster with Leonard, and getting absolutely
clocked by Hearns, Duran is probably my favorite fighter of all time.
What a hard-ass that guy was.
To see him - really a natural lightweight - go the distance with
Hagler was amazing.

--Vic