On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:08:55 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:21:43 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:54:20 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:



Ali was the best HW. But Larry Holmes was pretty close, and given his
title defenses should be a legend himself. Reason he never got much
respect is that birdbrain Howie Cosell was still calling fights, and
given his idolatry of Ali, he ran down Holmes every chance he got.
I haven't even watched a HW fight in years, given the quality now
compared to bygone eras.

Eh - I don't know about that. Homes was certainly a good fighter and
worthy of Hall of Fame inclusion, but you have to remember he spent a
lot of his time in the IBF fighting heavyweight chumps.

Politics. He would fight anybody.
And they ALL fought plenty of bums.
Should have kept his mouth shut about Marciano's jockstrap.
But he was one of the few fighters that would alert the ref to stop
the fight when his opponent had it.
And he had the best jab - bar none.


Absolutely, one of the best, certainly. Still say Ali/Frazier were
better.

In my opinion, the two greatest of our era had to be Ali and Frazier.

Everybody's got an opinion (-:
I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

Bonecrusher Smith.

You know what Marvis's problem was? Smokin' Joe tried to change his
natural boxing ability into punching ability - completely unnatural
for him. Kid had style and finesse as a boxer and was never a natural
puncher. He could have been one of the best ever - he had Ali type
grace and speed to boot.

For the record, I gave up on professional boxing after Hagler got
hosed in his bout with Ray Leonard - who was a total fraud as a boxer.
I think Hagler, if he had won that fight, would have been recognized
at the greatest professional fighter of all time.

I agree that Hagler was hosed, but Leonard was a terrific fighter.
Hagler suffered from the Leonard idolatry.
I was skeptical early on, because nobody had tagged him.
My contention was until that happened he wasn't proven.
We watched the Leanord/Hearns bout live, and I remember jumping
up yelling when Hearns clipped Leanord's jaw with a long right and
Leonard's knees wobbled. I thought my "feet of clay" theory might be
right. Nope. Leonard came back. Heart of a lion.

Eh - I always thought Leonard was soft and I still think so. Never
was a fan of his.

Probably my favorite fight.
And despite his "no mas" disaster with Leonard, and getting absolutely
clocked by Hearns, Duran is probably my favorite fighter of all time.

I heard an interview Leonard did with Bob Costas a few weeks ago -
Leonard claims that Duran never said "no mas" - he just quit.

What a hard-ass that guy was.
To see him - really a natural lightweight - go the distance with
Hagler was amazing.

Duran's legacy was defined by "no mas" which was unfortunate because,
as you said, he was a natural lightweight, changed class and held his
own.

You know, I can't think of one fighter today who could hold a candle
for any of these guys we've been talking about.

--

Time flies when you are sick and psychotic.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:40:53 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:08:55 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

It was an amateur fight.
"He had said it was ''a fluke'' when Marvis, the top amateur
heavyweight in the country at the time, was knocked out last June by
James Broad in the Olympic Trials. A punch high on the forehead rocked
young Frazier's head back, pinched a nerve in his neck, and left him
conscious but helplessly paralyzed on the canvas."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag... 7C0A967948260

As I recall it Marvis was winning when he got in a crouch and got hit
directly on top of his head. It was odd to see, as he was strong one
second, then flat on his face. The punch didn't appear to be a hard
one. I figured it jammed his spine somehow.
Another of my "most memorable" fights was when Ed Too Tall Jones got
clocked by Yaqui Menses, fell on his ass, and Yaqui kept whaling away
at him, no longer having the height disadvantage to deal with.
You just had to see that one to appreciate it. Funny as hell.
But I wasn't a Cowboys fan. Steelers.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:40:53 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:08:55 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

It was an amateur fight.
"He had said it was ''a fluke'' when Marvis, the top amateur
heavyweight in the country at the time, was knocked out last June by
James Broad in the Olympic Trials. A punch high on the forehead rocked
young Frazier's head back, pinched a nerve in his neck, and left him
conscious but helplessly paralyzed on the canvas."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag... 7C0A967948260

As I recall it Marvis was winning when he got in a crouch and got hit
directly on top of his head. It was odd to see, as he was strong one
second, then flat on his face. The punch didn't appear to be a hard
one. I figured it jammed his spine somehow.
Another of my "most memorable" fights was when Ed Too Tall Jones got
clocked by Yaqui Menses, fell on his ass, and Yaqui kept whaling away
at him, no longer having the height disadvantage to deal with.
You just had to see that one to appreciate it. Funny as hell.
But I wasn't a Cowboys fan. Steelers.

--Vic



My favorite was Bobo Olson. He lived near me in the 1950's and he could be
really wealthy today with his secret diet. Not only was he a great fighter,
did not fight a Chump of the month, but good fighters. He would balloon up
in weight and with seemingly no loss of energy, would lost a lot if pounds
in the month before a fight. Ali was fun to watch, as well as George
Foreman was fun to boo. But I always had a preference for middleweights and
the best to watch for super action was Flyweights. I watch a fight now and
then on the TV and it is either my age or the fighters are just not very
good. No zip to the show.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:09:56 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:40:53 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:08:55 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

It was an amateur fight.
"He had said it was ''a fluke'' when Marvis, the top amateur
heavyweight in the country at the time, was knocked out last June by
James Broad in the Olympic Trials. A punch high on the forehead rocked
young Frazier's head back, pinched a nerve in his neck, and left him
conscious but helplessly paralyzed on the canvas."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag... 7C0A967948260

Ah - didn't know that. I knew what's his name knocked Marvis down so
I just guessed.

As I recall it Marvis was winning when he got in a crouch and got hit
directly on top of his head. It was odd to see, as he was strong one
second, then flat on his face. The punch didn't appear to be a hard
one. I figured it jammed his spine somehow.

I had a concussion like that once a long time ago. When I was
starting training for my Kodokan school Judo black belt, the sensi,
Lt. Paul Miriyama, hit me with a foot sweep I wasn't expecting and
went head over heals right on top of my head. Felt fine, got up,
bowed and just kept right on going doing a face plant on the mat. :)

Another of my "most memorable" fights was when Ed Too Tall Jones got
clocked by Yaqui Menses, fell on his ass, and Yaqui kept whaling away
at him, no longer having the height disadvantage to deal with.
You just had to see that one to appreciate it. Funny as hell.
But I wasn't a Cowboys fan. Steelers.

Ed "Too Tall" Jones - there's a name for the ages.

And the Steelers suck. :)

--

Time flies when you are sick and psychotic.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:49:23 -0800, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:40:53 GMT, Wizard of Woodstock
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:08:55 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


I have to look for that fight I saw live where Marvis Frazier got hit
directly on top of the head and was floored. One of the weirdest
things I saw, after Ali's phantom punch.
Can't remember the opponent. Maybe it's on youtube.

It was an amateur fight.
"He had said it was ''a fluke'' when Marvis, the top amateur
heavyweight in the country at the time, was knocked out last June by
James Broad in the Olympic Trials. A punch high on the forehead rocked
young Frazier's head back, pinched a nerve in his neck, and left him
conscious but helplessly paralyzed on the canvas."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag... 7C0A967948260

As I recall it Marvis was winning when he got in a crouch and got hit
directly on top of his head. It was odd to see, as he was strong one
second, then flat on his face. The punch didn't appear to be a hard
one. I figured it jammed his spine somehow.
Another of my "most memorable" fights was when Ed Too Tall Jones got
clocked by Yaqui Menses, fell on his ass, and Yaqui kept whaling away
at him, no longer having the height disadvantage to deal with.
You just had to see that one to appreciate it. Funny as hell.
But I wasn't a Cowboys fan. Steelers.

My favorite was Bobo Olson. He lived near me in the 1950's and he could be
really wealthy today with his secret diet. Not only was he a great fighter,
did not fight a Chump of the month, but good fighters. He would balloon up
in weight and with seemingly no loss of energy, would lost a lot if pounds
in the month before a fight. Ali was fun to watch, as well as George
Foreman was fun to boo. But I always had a preference for middleweights and
the best to watch for super action was Flyweights. I watch a fight now and
then on the TV and it is either my age or the fighters are just not very
good. No zip to the show.

A lot of the better fighters have moved over to UFC or that other
crappy "MMA" league.

MMA sucks to tell the truth. It's all grappling and is boring as
hell. But it's the hot thing and the good fighters gravitate to it.
It's unfortunate because MMA is Professional Wrestling with real
punches instead of fake ones. :)

--

When I want your opinion, I'll beat it out of you

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:

A lot of the better fighters have moved over to UFC or that other
crappy "MMA" league.

MMA sucks to tell the truth. It's all grappling and is boring as
hell. But it's the hot thing and the good fighters gravitate to it.
It's unfortunate because MMA is Professional Wrestling with real
punches instead of fake ones. :)

MMA is professional bar brawls. Brings back some good and not so good
memories.

Court Street before they cleaned it up was a really fun place. Of course
with MPs and local PD riding together you were screwed if you got caught.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:00:39 -0500, BAR wrote:

Wizard of Woodstock wrote:

A lot of the better fighters have moved over to UFC or that other
crappy "MMA" league.

MMA sucks to tell the truth. It's all grappling and is boring as
hell. But it's the hot thing and the good fighters gravitate to it.
It's unfortunate because MMA is Professional Wrestling with real
punches instead of fake ones. :)

MMA is professional bar brawls. Brings back some good and not so good
memories.

Court Street before they cleaned it up was a really fun place. Of course
with MPs and local PD riding together you were screwed if you got caught.

It took your post almost 45 minutes to show up on my machine. It took Tom's
last post, to which I replied, about the same time. My reply to his post,
made at 7:30, still hasn't appeared.

If this continues for everyone, maybe there won't be 180 angry,
name-calling, insulting posts to wade through when I get back from golf.

Today we're playing Lee's Hill, down by Fredricksburg. Weather looks to be
very cooperative. With the ground frozen solid, there should be some good
distance on the drives. But, if a shot hits the green it's probably well
over the other side.
--
John H

* He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless DEAD*