I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first time
in the spring.

Me, too. It's just that it smells like crap, and the engine barely runs.
But yes, it starts and runs. You're right.

Steve

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:09:57 -0400, Jim22208
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 1, 8:08 pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
m...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. He verified spark and fuel
delivery. He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.
I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.
I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. The JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.
I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time

I gotta admit to a slight suspicion that there could be more to this.

All the pumps I've seen here in Florida are labeled up to 10% ethanol.
I'd put stabil in every tank of boat fuel and make sure you have a water
separator fuel filter mounted in the boat.

Sta-bil now has a dark colored "marine version" that is about double
the strength of the red stuff. Supposed to help somewhat with ethanol
problems, too. I doubt there is a way to completely avoid phase
separation if the gas sits more than 4 or 5 months, though.

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:39:05 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

In Iowa, where they make the ethanol, every vendor offers three grades
of gas, one of which has ethanol. As for keeping fuel more than two
weeks, that is just insane. How long do you think it is in the
pipeline before it sits around the tank farm? The local small town
convenience store sells 100 octane gas during the racing season.
Very expensive it is, low lead 100 avgas is much cheaper.

Casady

On Apr 1, 8:08*pm, HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:

"HK" wrote in message
om...
Frogwatch wrote:
I took the Tolman back to the mechanic and he decided to look it over
while I was there. *Took the cover off and he pronounced "Bad gas,
smell that varnish smell" and yes, I did. *He verified spark and fuel
delivery. *He sprayed starting fluid in and she she started but died
as soon as it was gas only. *Yes, this gas is about 4 months old and
probably had ethanol but the tank is nearly full so I did not think
I'd get enough humidity in to matter.
He advised to NEVER buy fuel with ethanol in it and never keep fuel
for more than a couple of weeks. *Unless I buy only at marinas, it
will be tough to find ethanol free fuel.

I keep gas in the tank over winter...and the motor starts the first
time in the spring.

I had my first experience with gas going bad this past winter. *The *JD
Gator I use to plow the driveway had been filled at the beginning of
last summer (5 gals) *but not used much all summer.
I usually add Stabil when I know an engine won't be used for a while but
this time I didn't.

I always dump some Stabil in the gas engine tanks...outboards, tractor,
chainsaw, et cetera. Actually, the dealer puts the Stabil in the
outboard fuel tank.

--
Palin & Bachmann in 2012 -
All Stupidity All the Time- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why the dealer? Didn't you once claim to have a mechanical engineering
degree?

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.
Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.


Ah, but there is something tou can do. Look up a product called
Water-Zorb. It really works like magic.

wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:37 -0400, Jim22208
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.
Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady
The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Ah, but there is something tou can do. Look up a product called
Water-Zorb. It really works like magic.

That's just another brand name for Dri-Gas. It's basically just
alcohol, like the alcohol that caused the problem. Adding more alcohol
may get you going in the short term, but will also likely shorten the
life of your engine.

There is no treatment you can add to gasoline that will eliminate
phase separation.

I've tested it and used it for several years. It works. It's not dry gas.

On Apr 3, 10:53*am, wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:14:37 -0400, Jim22208
wrote:





wrote:
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) *greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.
Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, *is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Ah, but there is something tou can do. Look up a product called
Water-Zorb. It really works like magic.

That's just another *brand name for Dri-Gas. It's basically just
alcohol, like the alcohol that caused the problem. Adding more alcohol
may get you going in the short term, but will also likely shorten the
life of your engine.

There is no treatment you can add to gasoline that will eliminate
phase separation.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are products, however, that will protect against phase
separation happening in the first place.

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:37:39 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Good fuel that happens to be in the same container as water is still
good fuel, you can start a new thread about separating water from fuel
if you like, but good fuel floating on water is still good fuel. This
is normally found in all tankers and most storage tanks. They strain
out the dead shrimp before it gets to you tank.

As for preventing gum, they mostly do all that needs doing at the
refinery. We have been leaving gas over the winter in the same
runabout for fifty years without a trace of gum. No problems with
water either. The only gum I have ever seen was in a lawn mower from a
thrift shop, and for all I know the varnish and gas were thirty years
old. The mower was that old.

You might not want drain valves for gasoline possibly dripping into
the bilge, but Diesel tanks should have quick drains, same as all the
light airplanes. [I presume heavy planes have them as well.]

The references to phase separation that I have found refer to water
washing the ethanol from fuel. When you then remove the water layer,
in numerous ways the boating community seems not to use,
the gasoline will be a point or so lower in octane since ethanol rates
100+ octane, [as do methanol, propane, toluene, acetone, 2,2,5
trimethyl pentane]. That last I threw in because it is the reference
fuel for the octane scale.

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:37:39 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 03 Apr 2009 07:22:26 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 12:36:01 -0400, wrote:

Storing gasoline above ground in a small tank (car, lawnmower,
outboard motor tank, etc) greatly increases the rate at which
moisture is absorbed. The underground tanks maintain a pretty constant
temperature.

Moisture has no particular effect on the formation of gum, which is
the issue under discussion.

Casady

The subject, stated on the subject line, is bad fuel. When talking
about problems with storing gas for long periods, water is a bigger
problem than formation of gum. You can retard or prevent the foramtion
of gum. You can't do much about phase separation of water in fuel.

Good fuel that happens to be in the same container as water is still
good fuel, you can start a new thread about separating water from fuel
if you like, but good fuel floating on water is still good fuel. This
is normally found in all tankers and most storage tanks. They strain
out the dead shrimp before it gets to you tank.

As for preventing gum, they mostly do all that needs doing at the
refinery. We have been leaving gas over the winter in the same
runabout for fifty years without a trace of gum. No problems with
water either. The only gum I have ever seen was in a lawn mower from a
thrift shop, and for all I know the varnish and gas were thirty years
old. The mower was that old.

You might not want drain valves for gasoline possibly dripping into
the bilge, but Diesel tanks should have quick drains, same as all the
light airplanes. [I presume heavy planes have them as well.]

The references to phase separation that I have found refer to water
washing the ethanol from fuel. When you then remove the water layer,
in numerous ways the boating community seems not to use,
the gasoline will be a point or so lower in octane since ethanol rates
100+ octane, [as do methanol, propane, toluene, acetone, 2,2,5
trimethyl pentane]. That last I threw in because it is the reference
fuel for the octane scale.

Casady

My BIL took in an 8hp shredder to have it fixed, as it had sat for a couple
of years. The mechanic said that "the carburetor was so gummed up, he had
to replace it." And he did kindly with a USED one, which he charged $125
for including labor. I believe I could have soaked and brushed it into
usability.

Steve