Steve Lusardi wrote:
One additional point, Monel is a stainless steel alloy.

Really? http://www.espi-metals.com/metals/monel.pdf
Alloy 400 has 2.5% iron and Alloy K-500 has 2%. A high copper steel
typically has less than 2% copper. Monel is around 30% and it's *NOT* a
steel!

It's primary use is
for high temperature strength and resistance to corrosion, 1000 degrees C
and higher.

540 deg C is in the middle of the heat treatment temperature range for
Monel K-500. 1000 deg C is around the temperature required to solution
anneal this alloy. Its properties are stable below 425 deg C.
http://www.hightempmetals.com/techdata/hitempMonelK500data.php

It will retain 90% of its room temperature strength when red
hot.
Steve

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
316, 316l, 316Ti, but like Monel, these alloys are all subject to crevice
corrosion. Their corrosion resistance is due to their ability to absorb
oxygen on their surface and if under even mild abrasion or electrolysis
and the environment becomes oxygen depleted, they corrode very quickly.
So, the answer is to make certain that water flows around the fastener,
anti sieze is used on the threads and it isn't mounted near dissimilar
metals and your golden.
Steve

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Show me the stainless alloy that does not corrode when submerged for long
in salt water, and I'm your man.

BrianW

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Brian,
Please do the research if you disagree. Stainless fasteners exhibit far
greater strength and fatigue resistance, which by the way is poor for
the whole nickel alloy family and depending on the alloy, exhibit every
bit as good resistance to corrosion. May I also point out that nickel
alloys fasteners are not always the best solution for corrosive and
electrolytic environments and that includes monel. So, assuming your
application qualifies for a nickel alloy solution, why in the world
would you choose monel, when SS is better and less expensive?
Steve

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Strong AND corrosion-resistant!
I'm all ears! Bronze? Particular brasses? Not stainless nor alloy
steel nor mild steel certainly. Some aluminum alloys? possibly.
nickel alloys (other than monel??) Titanium??

Brian W

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Ezcellent? I don't think so. There are other materials far better for
both strength and corrosion resistance. There are reasons why they are
hard to find.
Steve





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Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
...I have a stainless rudder post and a stainless
wind vane steerer shaft that do not have incompatible metals attached
and don't have zincs which don't have corrosion either.

But quit quibbling. I posted something about monel screws, there are
plenty of sources for them and whether you "need" them or not is of
course your decision.

Huh?
I was responding to somebody that
1) wants monel screws
2) apparently understands their anti-corrosion qualities.

Brian W

Hi Steve,

when you describe monel as a stainless steel,
you defeat your position.

Brian W

Steve Lusardi wrote:
One additional point, Monel is a stainless steel alloy. It's primary use is
for high temperature strength and resistance to corrosion, 1000 degrees C
and higher. It will retain 90% of its room temperature strength when red
hot.
Steve

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
316, 316l, 316Ti, but like Monel, these alloys are all subject to crevice
corrosion.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:59:29 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 12:48:01 +0200, "Steve Lusardi"
wrote:


US Five cent coins are 75% nickel and 25% copper. This is close to
monel.
Probably why they make such great washers !
Copper washed zinc pennies (about the only ones you see these days)
are pretty good too.



Reminds me of an experience I had with my father-in-law on his boat many
years ago.
He had an old Uniflite equipped with trim tabs. The control for the trim
tabs was a joystick type switch that applied power to the hydraulic motor
and valves to the tabs. Power was applied in the switch through a set of
contacts and a copper washer.

He had been having problems with the system, taken the switch apart and
decided to replace the copper washer because it was pitted from making and
breaking the electrical contacts over many years of use. He had just
finished re-installing the switch when I arrived at the dock and he asked me
to stay on the dock and watch the trim tabs to make sure they moved as he
manipulated the joy switch. All was fine until I happened to look up at
him in the cabin of the boat. He was facing me, manipulating the switch
behind him, and smoke was pouring out of the enclosure that contained his
instruments and the joy switch.

Turns out he had used a stainless washer to replace the copper one. The
current draw through the switch was over 10 amps. Stainless is a poor
electrical conductor and the replacement washer in the switch was glowing
red when we pulled it out of the console and tried it again so we could see
it.

So, with no copper washer available, he drilled a hole in a penny and tried
that. Worked fine.

Eisboch

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:12:36 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
...I have a stainless rudder post and a stainless
wind vane steerer shaft that do not have incompatible metals attached
and don't have zincs which don't have corrosion either.

But quit quibbling. I posted something about monel screws, there are
plenty of sources for them and whether you "need" them or not is of
course your decision.

Huh?
I was responding to somebody that
1) wants monel screws
2) apparently understands their anti-corrosion qualities.

Brian W

Well, obviously things get a bit confused after a while. I must admit
that I didn't follow the thread when it started. Just chimed in when
the comment about no stainless that don't corrode under water came up.

Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote:

Well, obviously things get a bit confused after a while. I must
admit
that I didn't follow the thread when it started. Just chimed in when
the comment about no stainless that don't corrode under water came
up.

As long as you brought it up again, "stainless" actually should be
written as "Stain Less".

Sooner or later, it all pits.

About all 304 (AKA: 18-8) is good for is cooking pots and pans, also
classified as intermittent service..

It certainly has no place in a marine environment, IMHO.

316L is a step up the food chain, but even that has it's limitations.

Lew

On Fri, 01 May 2009 03:01:12 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote:

Well, obviously things get a bit confused after a while. I must
admit
that I didn't follow the thread when it started. Just chimed in when
the comment about no stainless that don't corrode under water came
up.

As long as you brought it up again, "stainless" actually should be
written as "Stain Less".

Sooner or later, it all pits.

About all 304 (AKA: 18-8) is good for is cooking pots and pans, also
classified as intermittent service..

It certainly has no place in a marine environment, IMHO.

316L is a step up the food chain, but even that has it's limitations.

Lew


From the Wiki (the font of all knowledge :-)

In metallurgy, stainless steel, also known as inox steel or inox, is
defined as a steel alloy with a minimum of 11% chromium content by
mass.[1] Stainless steel does not stain, corrode, or rust as easily as
ordinary steel (it stains less), but it is not stain-proof.
--------------

I wouldn't argue that 304 is the alloy of choice for marine use but I
have rails on a 40' boat that were built from 304 and 10 after years
of use there is no corrosion on them.

I have this feeling that people read recommendations as carved in
tablets of stone rather then as conservative suggestions. As I said in
another post the rudder post (built in 1973) is stainless with no
signs of corrosion yet...


Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:01:37 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:


Turns out he had used a stainless washer to replace the copper one. The
current draw through the switch was over 10 amps. Stainless is a poor
electrical conductor and the replacement washer in the switch was glowing
red

On a scale of 0-250, where silver is 250, copper 225, aluminum 175,
stainless is about six or eight. You can pretty much use the same
scale for thermal and electrical conductivity. Carbon steel is about
25, with Al 175, for heat transmission. Makes the beer warm up much
faster than the old style cans. If you were a Luddite and didn't like
pop tops, you could turn a steel can upside down, and open it with a
church key. But I digress.

Casady

On Fri, 01 May 2009 03:01:12 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:

316L is a step up the food chain, but even that has it's limitations.

My 316 refrigerator has one endearing property: magnets dont stick to
it.

Casady

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


I wouldn't argue that 304 is the alloy of choice for marine use but I
have rails on a 40' boat that were built from 304 and 10 after years
of use there is no corrosion on them....

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Stainless steel does well in relatively dry environments with access to
oxygen. Look at your home cutlery, for example.
Then go buy a stainless bowl and fill it half full of water.

See how long it takes to develop its first pin hole.
A matter of weeks or less, quite likely.

Brian W