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#11
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. 3. No or extremely low cost college tuition. 4. A serious rehab program if they are injured on the job. One of my buddies lost use of an arm in a horrific accident. The government picked up all his medical bills, and sent him back to college to learn a new profession he would be able to handle. It also supported his family while he was learning a new profession. There are no disposable workers in his country. I've been to his house. He lives between Oslo and Lillehammer. Nice suburban house, very well insulated. Not huge, but comfy, well-built, and up to date. Come to think of it, he's probably retired by now. I'll take the right-wing rants about U.S. factory worker pay seriously once we have plans in place to make sure those who do that kind of work are treated like workers in other modern countries. Oh...and when the ratio in pay between top execs and line workers comes down from four or five hundred to one (or higher) to maybe 10 to 1. |
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#12
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. 3. No or extremely low cost college tuition. 4. A serious rehab program if they are injured on the job. One of my buddies lost use of an arm in a horrific accident. The government picked up all his medical bills, and sent him back to college to learn a new profession he would be able to handle. It also supported his family while he was learning a new profession. There are no disposable workers in his country. I've been to his house. He lives between Oslo and Lillehammer. Nice suburban house, very well insulated. Not huge, but comfy, well-built, and up to date. Come to think of it, he's probably retired by now. I'll take the right-wing rants about U.S. factory worker pay seriously once we have plans in place to make sure those who do that kind of work are treated like workers in other modern countries. Oh...and when the ratio in pay between top execs and line workers comes down from four or five hundred to one (or higher) to maybe 10 to 1. Knock. Knock. The USA is not Norway. The USA is not a euro-styled socialistic society. If that's what you advocate, be honest and say so. Otherwise your comparisons are meaningless. Eisboch |
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#13
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
On Mon, 11 May 2009 08:44:18 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote: "Canuck57" wrote in message ... "Eisboch" wrote in message ... Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo I think he overstates the CAW/UAW in holding any cards. They are holding a bluff hand. Bond holders hold the cards. Lets see how they play them. Even the Chrylser deal is at risk as not all bond holders have been suckered into pennies on the dollar. You are not up to date. The Chrysler bond holder ranks thinned and then those that remained threw in the towel due to political pressure brought on by Obama inspired negative public opinion. This was late last week. GM's bond holders are facing the same public opinion problem. Only difference is that there are many more of them. And a lot of them are pension funds - like the State of California. Heh,heh, heh... |
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#14
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. 3. No or extremely low cost college tuition. 4. A serious rehab program if they are injured on the job. One of my buddies lost use of an arm in a horrific accident. The government picked up all his medical bills, and sent him back to college to learn a new profession he would be able to handle. It also supported his family while he was learning a new profession. There are no disposable workers in his country. I've been to his house. He lives between Oslo and Lillehammer. Nice suburban house, very well insulated. Not huge, but comfy, well-built, and up to date. Come to think of it, he's probably retired by now. BTW, I have relatives in both Sweden and Norway with whom we communicate occasionally. Like many, they have problems with some of our political leaders and policies, but overall the citizens of both countries have high regard for and a level of admiration for the US style of government and society. Given your demonstrated philosophies, it is understandable why you are so impressed by Norway. You have better things to say than many Norwegians. Must be a "grass is always greener" thing. Eisboch |
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#15
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. 3. No or extremely low cost college tuition. 4. A serious rehab program if they are injured on the job. One of my buddies lost use of an arm in a horrific accident. The government picked up all his medical bills, and sent him back to college to learn a new profession he would be able to handle. It also supported his family while he was learning a new profession. There are no disposable workers in his country. I've been to his house. He lives between Oslo and Lillehammer. Nice suburban house, very well insulated. Not huge, but comfy, well-built, and up to date. Come to think of it, he's probably retired by now. I'll take the right-wing rants about U.S. factory worker pay seriously once we have plans in place to make sure those who do that kind of work are treated like workers in other modern countries. Oh...and when the ratio in pay between top execs and line workers comes down from four or five hundred to one (or higher) to maybe 10 to 1. Knock. Knock. The USA is not Norway. The USA is not a euro-styled socialistic society. If that's what you advocate, be honest and say so. Otherwise your comparisons are meaningless. Eisboch Well, I suppose I am "socialistic" enough to value labor at least as much as capital. Drastically cutting the pay of factory workers and eliminating their health care and retirement benefits is not acceptable. Might as well do away with safety regulations while we are at it, right? I mean anything that helps the rich get richer at the expense of the working middle class...why that's the new American way. |
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#16
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: "HK" wrote in message m... Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? Why is that? Seems like when you cannot directly contradict or debate facts you default to a generalized, "right-winger" attack. Eisboch There's no reason to "directly contradict" or "debate" right-wingers because it would be the same as lying down with pigs in a pool of pig**** and expecting to come out clean. I read the article, and the conclusion is the same as all the other right-wing articles that state that auto workers in this country should work for peanuts. I especially liked the analogies between what the auto worker earns and what physicians can earn - that was funny stuff. I'm sure I've told you about my Norwegian buddies who work the offshore oil rigs and the supply boats. They make substantially less than their U.S. counterparts, but they live very well, and seem a lot happier than American works. Why? 1. First class national health care plan. 2. First class retirement plan that provides a really decent retirement. 3. No or extremely low cost college tuition. 4. A serious rehab program if they are injured on the job. One of my buddies lost use of an arm in a horrific accident. The government picked up all his medical bills, and sent him back to college to learn a new profession he would be able to handle. It also supported his family while he was learning a new profession. There are no disposable workers in his country. I've been to his house. He lives between Oslo and Lillehammer. Nice suburban house, very well insulated. Not huge, but comfy, well-built, and up to date. Come to think of it, he's probably retired by now. BTW, I have relatives in both Sweden and Norway with whom we communicate occasionally. Like many, they have problems with some of our political leaders and policies, but overall the citizens of both countries have high regard for and a level of admiration for the US style of government and society. Given your demonstrated philosophies, it is understandable why you are so impressed by Norway. You have better things to say than many Norwegians. Must be a "grass is always greener" thing. Eisboch Aside from my one visit to Norway, what I know about Norway (from a personal perspective point of view) is what I have been told by my Norwegian friends. The United States is disintegrating, and not because of creeping socialism. We're going downhill because we let greed become our most important guiding philosophy. Too much power and money is in the hands of too few, and for most of "them," what's most important is making more money, no matter how many others that sort of greed hurts. At some point, probably not in my lifetime or yours, the "have-nots" are going to revolt violent and restructure this country in ways that provide a decent way of life and some sort of security for the majority. The superrich? Why, they can move to China and exploit the billions who live there. |
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#17
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
On May 11, 8:41*am, "Canuck57" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message news 
"Eisboch" wrote in message m... Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...-giving-up-mor.... I'd told my father in law for years that the UAW would kill the auto industry. He's retired GM UAW. When he was working, we'd get into huge arguments when they were undergoing contract "negotiations." All I heard was the union rhetoric... "we want, we want, we want." They completely lost sight of the fact that they had a JOB! And a well paying job at that... yet they wanted more. He has admitted now, that he's lucky that he is retired. --Mike Unions could not survive without the development of discontent and fostering the growth of greed. *Hate to say it, but they are about bullying people and companies. *Sort of like mini organised maffia of sorts. You bunch make me laugh on here. The reason being you're blind to the truth in the matter. What about the VERY highly paid execs, who milked GM out of millions? They're never mentioned...funny. Waggoner should be shot. I'd say the " workers " are the LEAST greedy of the whole bunch. If there was no Union, we'd all get 8 bucks an hour. Try living on that, in todays " greedy " inflated economy. |
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#18
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote: Interesting prospective on the UAW... http://seekingalpha.com/article/1366...e?source=yahoo It is always fun to read the right-wingers' rationalizations as to why the working man and woman should be paid ****, with no benefits. Serfdom uber alles, eh? What's even more fun is watching you wriggle and squirm when the light shines on your favorite entities. |
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#20
posted to rec.boats
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GM next?
"HK" wrote in message news  Well, I suppose I am "socialistic" enough to value labor at least as much as capital. Drastically cutting the pay of factory workers and eliminating their health care and retirement benefits is not acceptable. Might as well do away with safety regulations while we are at it, right? I mean anything that helps the rich get richer at the expense of the working middle class...why that's the new American way. Look. I respect anyone willing to work. I value training, education and a willingness to acquire valuable skills. In the trades, licensed electricians, plumbers, etc., union or not, deserve whatever they can command in terms of pay or benefits. The UAW isn't exactly the same, IMO. Most members are high school grads at best with no specific trades or training before becoming an autoworker at GM, Chrysler or Ford. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Nothing wrong with that, but how they can expect wages and benefits that are well above the norm for the level of skill, training and qualifications required to do their job is something I cannot understand. It has nothing to do with rich versus poor. It has everything to do with being compensated commensurate with one's qualifications. If you and I were looking for a job as a journalist or copy writer for a newspaper or magazine, who is better qualified for a higher paying job? Eisboch |
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