My kids have gotten me into caving again. FINALLY, I have gotten them
into getting their own gear ready and my 13 yr old daughter and 23 yr
old daughter spent an hour or so getting lights, helmets, and other
gear ready and had a good time doing it. 23 yr old is bringing her bf
who has been before and his 9 yr old brother who has not, exhausting
our supply of electric lights so I am going back to the old days of
using a carbide lamp. The awful smell of acetylene made from the
calcium carbide sure brings back memories, a good smell to an older
caver. The ritual of lighting the carbide lamp was instinctive
leading to the nice POP as she burst into light. Made sure we all
have at least 3 sources of light, trash bags (can save your life) and
other stuff.
Going to go to a cave I've been in dozens of times near Marianna, FL.
Its a nice muddy cave with lots of drippy formations and a couple of
nice climbs and lots of muddy crawling.
Yes, I 'd like to go boating but the lure of dark unknown passages is
too strong and the boots just feel right. I just wish my 19 yr old son
was interested.

On Jul 10, 11:57*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
My kids have gotten me into caving again. *FINALLY, I have gotten them
into getting their own gear ready and my 13 yr old daughter and 23 yr
old daughter spent an hour or so getting lights, helmets, and other
gear ready and had a good time doing it. *23 yr old is bringing her bf
who has been before and his 9 yr old brother who has not, exhausting
our supply of electric lights so I am going back to the old days of
using a carbide lamp. *The awful smell of acetylene made from the
calcium carbide sure brings back memories, a good smell to an older
caver. *The ritual of lighting the carbide lamp was instinctive
leading to the nice POP as she burst into light. *Made sure we all
have at least 3 sources of light, trash bags (can save your life) and
other stuff.
Going to go to a cave I've been in dozens of times near Marianna, FL.
Its a nice muddy cave with lots of drippy formations and a couple of
nice climbs and lots of muddy crawling.
Yes, I 'd like to go boating but the lure of dark unknown passages is
too strong and the boots just feel right. I just wish my 19 yr old son
was interested.

On Jul 11, 12:21*am, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 10, 11:57*pm, Frogwatch wrote:

My kids have gotten me into caving again. *FINALLY, I have gotten them
into getting their own gear ready and my 13 yr old daughter and 23 yr
old daughter spent an hour or so getting lights, helmets, and other
gear ready and had a good time doing it. *23 yr old is bringing her bf
who has been before and his 9 yr old brother who has not, exhausting
our supply of electric lights so I am going back to the old days of
using a carbide lamp. *The awful smell of acetylene made from the
calcium carbide sure brings back memories, a good smell to an older
caver. *The ritual of lighting the carbide lamp was instinctive
leading to the nice POP as she burst into light. *Made sure we all
have at least 3 sources of light, trash bags (can save your life) and
other stuff.
Going to go to a cave I've been in dozens of times near Marianna, FL.
Its a nice muddy cave with lots of drippy formations and a couple of
nice climbs and lots of muddy crawling.
Yes, I 'd like to go boating but the lure of dark unknown passages is
too strong and the boots just feel right. I just wish my 19 yr old son
was interested.

Thinking about ti made me pull up my map of Climax cave in south GA.
A difficult cave, a maze of swiss cheese-like rock interspersed with
large rooms and pools of water so clear you'd walk right into em not
knowing they were there. Just getting to the main part of the cave
required a serious crawl through very tight passage for a couple
hundred feet with one spot requiring you take off helmet and put hands
in front and swallow your fear and push downward with your toes as you
passed through a place too tight to wiggle at all, only your toes
allowed you to push ahead. You emerged into passage requiring you to
crawl on your side suspended above a notch-like crevice and then a
sharp left turn through a bizarre keyhole-like opening.
Eventually, you go to the T-room, a huge place too big for carbide
lamps to see across strewn with enormous boulders requiring you to
traverse from one to another in the darkness to reach the relative
comfort of THE ROCK GOD. Imagine an enormous and high rock hanging
over an ampitheatre-sized room. From its top you look down into a
chaos of boulders disapperaring into the darkness. A truly primeval
place. It is as if you are present at the moment of creation, before
God produced light, the only elements being rock and darkness. With
your lamp, you feel god-like able to separate rock from nothingness
and darkness. All reality is defined by the extant of your carbide
lamp with the unknown stretching beyond the dimly lit regions of your
lamps reach.
It is also humbling knowing that without light you'd be lost in the
chaos. Imagine being immersed in the noise of your tv screen without
any signal, except it is dark. Without any light you'd never find the
passage that your carbide lamp reveals and you'd wander randomly
through the chaos. You are far beyond any hope of rescue if anything
happened to you and all hope of returning to reality depends entirely
on yourself.
These caving experiences of my late 20s strongly shaped my outlook on
life and made me almost completely self sufficient and generated a
desire for the unknown stronger than any drug. Even in my early 50s,
I still have several dreams a week about caving. Something that
shapes your life so strongly is difficult to ignore when it comes back
later in life.

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

My kids have gotten me into caving again

Good - have fun - don't forget to write.

EEEWWW - caving.

"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

My kids have gotten me into caving again

Good - have fun - don't forget to write.

EEEWWW - caving.

Must be a skinny little guy. I had trouble in a couple places while going
around the dome at St. Peters in the Vatican. It is a double wall dome and
tapers at the top. Being 6'4" with broad shoulders, the shoulders would
cause me to have to twist a lot to clear the walls as they narrowed.

Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 11, 1:31 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:m2vg555ee7547hvkoqtpls53mk0f6ju9hs@4ax .com...

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
My kids have gotten me into caving again
Good - have fun - don't forget to write.
EEEWWW - caving.
Must be a skinny little guy. I had trouble in a couple places while going
around the dome at St. Peters in the Vatican. It is a double wall dome and
tapers at the top. Being 6'4" with broad shoulders, the shoulders would
cause me to have to twist a lot to clear the walls as they narrowed.

Oh my poor knees. T'was no trouble caving but later my knees are
shot. Having trouble even standing up. It was seriously muddy. one
of th epeople took pics and when I get em i'll post em to show what
real mud looks like.


Are the snakes fearful of you?

On Jul 11, 1:31*pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:m2vg555ee7547hvkoqtpls53mk0f6ju9hs@4ax .com...

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

My kids have gotten me into caving again

Good - have fun - don't forget to write.

EEEWWW - caving.

Must be a skinny little guy. *I had trouble in a couple places while going
around the dome at St. Peters in the Vatican. *It is a double wall dome and
tapers at the top. *Being 6'4" with broad shoulders, the shoulders would
cause me to have to twist a lot to clear the walls as they narrowed.

Oh my poor knees. T'was no trouble caving but later my knees are
shot. Having trouble even standing up. It was seriously muddy. one
of th epeople took pics and when I get em i'll post em to show what
real mud looks like.

On Jul 11, 4:46*pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 11, 1:31 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:m2vg555ee7547hvkoqtpls53mk0f6ju9hs@4ax .com...

On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
My kids have gotten me into caving again
Good - have fun - don't forget to write.
EEEWWW - caving.
Must be a skinny little guy. *I had trouble in a couple places while going
around the dome at St. Peters in the Vatican. *It is a double wall dome and
tapers at the top. *Being 6'4" with broad shoulders, the shoulders would
cause me to have to twist a lot to clear the walls as they narrowed.

Oh my poor knees. *T'was no trouble caving but later my knees are
shot. *Having trouble even standing up. *It was seriously muddy. one
of th epeople took pics and when I get em i'll post em to show what
real mud looks like.

Are the snakes fearful of you?

Snakes are afraid of everybody and I have a healthy respect for them.
Surprisingly, we saw none today but I was sure looking. I am no
longer skinny (6' 2" and 187 lbs) but seem to have few problems
fitting into places. It is nice to see healthy young men having
trouble doing something I can do easily. Me: " We go that way"
pointing to a crack about 1' wide sloping down at an extreme angle
with no place to put your feet. He tries several times and cannot do
it. It is all method, I wedged myself in it with my back on one wall
and knees and hands on the other and wiggled sideways for 20'.
Sometimes us old farts can outdo the youngsters.

Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 11, 4:46 pm, HK wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Jul 11, 1:31 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"Yogi of Woodstock" wrote in messagenews:m2vg555ee7547hvkoqtpls53mk0f6ju9hs@4ax .com...
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:
My kids have gotten me into caving again
Good - have fun - don't forget to write.
EEEWWW - caving.
Must be a skinny little guy. I had trouble in a couple places while going
around the dome at St. Peters in the Vatican. It is a double wall dome and
tapers at the top. Being 6'4" with broad shoulders, the shoulders would
cause me to have to twist a lot to clear the walls as they narrowed.
Oh my poor knees. T'was no trouble caving but later my knees are
shot. Having trouble even standing up. It was seriously muddy. one
of th epeople took pics and when I get em i'll post em to show what
real mud looks like.
Are the snakes fearful of you?

Snakes are afraid of everybody and I have a healthy respect for them.
Surprisingly, we saw none today but I was sure looking. I am no
longer skinny (6' 2" and 187 lbs) but seem to have few problems
fitting into places. It is nice to see healthy young men having
trouble doing something I can do easily. Me: " We go that way"
pointing to a crack about 1' wide sloping down at an extreme angle
with no place to put your feet. He tries several times and cannot do
it. It is all method, I wedged myself in it with my back on one wall
and knees and hands on the other and wiggled sideways for 20'.
Sometimes us old farts can outdo the youngsters.


I'll wait for the video.

On Jul 11, 12:54*am, Frogwatch wrote:

*Made sure we all
have at least 3 sources of light, trash bags (can save your life) and
other stuff.

Do you also run a continuous line to the entrance like the underwater
cavers?

What are the trash bags for?

*From its top you look down into a
chaos of boulders disapperaring into the darkness. *A truly primeval
place. *It is as if you are present at the moment of creation, before
God produced light, the only elements being rock and darkness. *With
your lamp, you feel god-like able to separate rock from nothingness
and darkness. *All reality is defined by the extant of your carbide
lamp with the unknown stretching beyond the dimly lit regions of your
lamps reach.
It is also humbling knowing that without light you'd be lost in the
chaos. *Imgine being immersed in the noise of your tv screen without
any signal, except it is dark. *Without any light you'd never find the
passage that your carbide lamp reveals and you'd wander randomly
through the chaos. *You are far beyond any hope of rescue if anything
happened to you and all hope of returning to reality depends entirely
on yourself.

Great description :-)

These caving experiences of my late 20s strongly shaped my outlook on
life and made me almost completely self sufficient and generated a
desire for the unknown stronger than any drug. *Even in my early 50s,
I still have several dreams a week about caving. *Something that
shapes your life so strongly is difficult to ignore when it comes back
later in life.

My only experience is with UW caves (technically the "cavern" portions
of them). Weightless, in total
darkness and the only sound is your breathing off the regulator.
Coolest experience
was near the grate in the Ballroom at Ginnie Springs. You can shut
down your light
and look back (100'+-) towards the entrance, and it will appear as a
round blue - green
and white sphere, like a photo of the earth, from space. Weekday
afternoons are best, to have the place for yourself) and, you don't
have to worry about weather, seas, or even washing your gear.

UW caving is viewed as near suicidal by the general public. But, the
vast majority of
fatalities are divers completely untrained in diving caves (or any OH
environment), with totally
inappropriate diving gear, ignoring & bypassing the"Grim Reaper"
warning signs that are in
place at every dive site, and going where they meet what can only be a
nightmarishly frightening end.

For a brief history of perhaps the most amazing, Brass Balls required,
UW cavers checkout:

http://gue.com/?q=en/node/552
--
SJM