I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
control." Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.

This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:06:53 -0700, Jim wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.

This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

That's a bit extreme.
Plenty are happy with them.
Of course if you got burned, GM lost you.
One of those guys you look at looks exactly like me. (-:

--Vic

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:26:42 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

Quality, durability and planned obsolesence don't play well together.
GM could do quality and durability if they wanted to, just never
considered it important.

Vic Smith wrote:
I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
control." Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic
Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting
something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
care into their planning.
The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
only Wall Streeters should b e making it.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:24:58 -0400, nada wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
control." Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic
Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting
something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
care into their planning.
The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
only Wall Streeters should b e making it.

--

John H

On Jul 16, 1:24*pm, nada wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:
I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. *The "new
improved" gaskets. *Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. *I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. *Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. *We've got the union costs under
control." *Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. *Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. *When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" *I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. *GM engineers and GM management
did that. *Wasn't the union. *Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. *And if they
did they would have made it right. *You want customers, you better
give them reliability. *There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. *Didn't really want to say anything else to him..
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. *Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic

Every one of these jerks thing the Unioniozed Workers are getting
something tghey want but didn't go after. It is hateful envy.
Those that work at the corner market applied to work there.
Those that work at GM, Boeing, or wherever applied to work there.
Thse that choose to be Entrepeanurs should have included choice health
care into their planning.
The average wage is supposedly 54,000+ in the US yet thes people bitch
when an Auto Worker or whomever is approaching that level. They figure
only Wall Streeters should b e making it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My ex wife worked at the Lordstown, Ohio GM plant. She intentially
shut down the line one day, and the union protected her and kept her
from being fired. She told me the stories of how she and her co-
workers harmed the company, messed with the cars, and generally were
just bad employees, and through it all they kept their jobs and kept
getting raises and bennies. There's a word for how people feel about
this kind of union-bred crap, but it's certainly not "envy".

It could be argued that the 3800 motor was cheapened by GM management
in order to be price competitive with other car brands that didn't
have the cost burden of union benefits built into every car.

No, the UAW did not bring down the American auto companies alone, but
they are most certainly complicit in their demise.

Jack wrote:
On Jul 16, 1:24 pm, nada wrote:


My ex wife worked at the Lordstown, Ohio GM plant. She intentially
shut down the line one day, and the union protected her and kept her
from being fired. She told me the stories of how she and her co-
workers harmed the company, messed with the cars, and generally were
just bad employees, and through it all they kept their jobs and kept
getting raises and bennies. There's a word for how people feel about
this kind of union-bred crap, but it's certainly not "envy".


So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

H the K wrote:

So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

Same thing your ex-wife says about you, I bet!

Johnson

On Jul 16, 2:59*pm, Johnson wrote:
H the K wrote:
So, your ex-wife was a loser. So are you. What a surprise.

Same thing your ex-wife says about you, I bet!

Johnson

His current wife, too. Didn't take his name, and won't let him put
his name on her house.

Heh.