I posted this to the GM group, which I sometimes participate in,
but I really like talking to boaters more than anything.
Boaters are.....just cool!
Anyway most here have some GM experience, and I know you all like to
talk about unions.

*********************

So I go into the local GM dealership this morning to get the lower
intake manifold gasket set for my kid's 95 Bonneville. The "new
improved" gaskets. Aluminum framed, not plastic.
The car's got 80k miles on it, and too many GM owners took real big
hits when the lower manifold gaskets rotted away or plastic upper
plenum melted away. I bought a Dorman upper plenum elsewhere.
Way too many with as few as 40k miles, and for cars at least as late
as 2003 with the 3800 Series 2 engine have the problem.
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
There was only very minor relief from GM for these disasters.
Hell, the new LIM gasket didn't come out until 2006 or 2007.
My kid is putting in the improved LIM gasket and the improved Gorman
upper plenum as a preventative measure.
The plenum was 61 bucks through Amazon and the gasket was
75 bucks at GM.
Then there's going to be some brake and carb cleaner to clean things
up, and some thread lock.
So it's going to cost about $150 in parts, and at least 3 hours of the
kid's labor. Luckily, he loves doing this stuff.
Anyway, one parts guy goes to get my gasket set, and I ask one of the
other guys, probably the manager, who's sitting on his ass rifling
through paperwork, "What do you think about the new GM?"
He doesn't hardly look up, and why should he?
After all, I'm just a customer.
He says, "I feel good about it. We've got the union costs under
control." Mumbles something about health costs.
I said, "Yeah, that union health care was hurting GM, and health care
is a problem all over."
He wasn't interested in my comment, and goes on a bit ragging the
union. Didn't hear it exactly, because the other guy came back with
my part and pointed me to cashier window about ten feet away.
The cashier was waiting for me.
So as I give her the invoice and my credit card something is bothering
me. When I asked that guy about the "new GM" I was expecting
to hear something besides bitching about the union.
Maybe something about how good the Malibu and Impala are selling, or a
new goal toward engineering excellence and customer satisfaction.
I walk back to the parts desk and said, probably a bit too loudly,
in order to get this guys attention, but I was actually ****ed.
"Hey, see this?" I held up the $75 gasket set.
"The union didn't design the 3800. GM engineers and GM management
did that. Wasn't the union. Sure as hell wasn't Toyota. And if they
did they would have made it right. You want customers, you better
give them reliability. There's more than one side of a story."
He admitted that as I walked back to the cashier to sign the receipt
and get out of there. Didn't really want to say anything else to him.
**** him.
Anyway, a bad experience. Hope this asshole doesn't represent GM's
future.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.

This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:06:53 -0700, Jim wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed.
I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.

This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

That's a bit extreme.
Plenty are happy with them.
Of course if you got burned, GM lost you.
One of those guys you look at looks exactly like me. (-:

--Vic

"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.

This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.

Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.


Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:33:03 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.


Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

I had great luck with my GMC pickup, but my next pickup will be a Ford
or a Toyota, if they start making a diesel.
--

John H

Lil' John wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:33:03 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.
Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.


Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

I had great luck with my GMC pickup, but my next pickup will be a Ford
or a Toyota, if they start making a diesel.
--

John H

Since obama is forcing GM and Chrysler to build car that are
functionally unusable for Americans in 90% of the area of the country,
you may not have a choice.

I think it demonstrated obama's tenuous hold on reality, when the car
that Chrysler was selling and first brought back into production after
the shutdown was the Viper.

"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message
...
Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a
GM. Me, I will not even rent one.
Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

Go buy one then. Lets see if the next one is like that.

On Jul 16, 9:33*pm, Keith Nuttle wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. *Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.

Ditto. *A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.

Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

When you spread 200,000 miles over "several" vehicles, that's not many
miles per vehicle, so there's not much of a chance to have a problem.

If you're saying that you've put 200,000 miles *each* on several GM
vehicles and have had no problem, I'd have to call BS. Statistically
impossible.

Jack wrote:
On Jul 16, 9:33 pm, Keith Nuttle wrote:
Canuck57 wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message
m...
Vic Smith wrote:
Can cause hydrolock, bent rods, warped heads, wiped bearings, etc.
Some catch it in the early stages and only pay $400-1200 to get it
fixed. I've spent some time in Pontiac, Buick and Chevy forums reading
about the pain and expense this poor design has caused.
This is why GM is doomed. Not only would I never buy another one, but
when I see one on the highway I look to see what the fool who bought one
looks like.
Ditto. A friend is gong to be buying a car shortly, says anything but a GM.
Me, I will not even rent one.
Is that why I have only gotten 200,000 trouble free miles on my last
several GM automobiles?

When you spread 200,000 miles over "several" vehicles, that's not many
miles per vehicle, so there's not much of a chance to have a problem.

If you're saying that you've put 200,000 miles *each* on several GM
vehicles and have had no problem, I'd have to call BS. Statistically
impossible.

You need to leave the computer and come out to the real world. There are
no statistics involved. When you make trips to points that are 150 to
700 miles from where you live a couple of times per month, 200,000 miles
on one car is not impossible. In fact It is quite normal in the areas
where I have lived.

I have friends who are commuting 150 miles round trip each day. About a
year ago I was driving 70 miles round trip to work. It has been years
since I have to change even a simple thing like an alternator. I have
never lost an engine nor been left stranded by a car not working.

So I don't know where you are getting your information.