On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:29:16 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

The more you keep repeating this mantra, the more you sound like someone who
consistantly got their ass kicked over the years.


Doesn't play well with others.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.

I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.


And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."

Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.

RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her BSN
and now is an NP.


I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.





Your doctors hire the nurse if she has a state license. As an RN (who later
got her degree) my mom stated one time we see if they are breathing before
we hire them. Shortage of nurses. Most nurses now get a degree. As the
nursing schools partner up with colleges. My mom went to school for 3
years, 11 months a year for a total of 33 months to get her RN. This was
1932. Which is almost the same time it takes for a 4 year college degree.
There is a nursing shortage. My mom at 90 years old, and still having a
valid registration (she worked until she was 91) got lots of offers for the
Registry. Fill in nurses.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"H the K" wrote in message
m...


Company loyalty? Commitment to the company? Give your life to the company
so that you can be laid off two years before your retirement or your job
is shifted overseas?

The only loyalty as a worker a working person should have is to
himself/herself and the family.

It used to be different...but that was before greed became the most
important corporate goal.


Y A W N

The more you keep repeating this mantra, the more you sound like someone
who consistantly got their ass kicked over the years.

You snooze, you lose.

Eisboch


Actually sounds more like greed of the employee. Give me the money and I
might help the company. Or maybe not.

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.


Harry, we can only take you for your word,

LOL


--
Reginald P. Smithers III, Esq.

This Newsgroup post is a natural product. The slight variations in
spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in
no way are to be considered flaws or defects

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:30:25 -0400, gfretwell wrote:


There are lots of reasons why we have higher health costs. We generally
have less healthy lifestyles and diet. We invented "extreme sports" and
generally stupid human tricks people do, that result in a lot of
expensive injuries. We have a lot more violence in our cities that clogs
ERs every night and we have a big appetite for elective procedures.
We also have a huge lawyer tax. Ask your doctor what his insurance bill
is. Compare that to a Canadian doctor. Add in all the extra tests to
show "due diligence" that causes and you start to understand why we are
#1 in cost.

All of the above sound reasonable, although it does smack of blaming the
victim. I found this report that was made for Congress. It seems well
balanced, and contained several surprises for me.

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL34175_20070917.pdf

There are two main cost savings that jump out at me. Administrative
costs, we spent 20-25% of our health care dollars on administration. The
second would be, more professional health care workers, supply and
demand. I would also consider reducing the educational debt load that is
carried by our health care professionals. Perhaps even a free education,
for doctors.

One of the surprises was pharmaceuticals. We tend to pay more for new
drugs, but considerably less as the drugs get older. Overall, our
pharmaceutical spending, as a percentage of total health spending is
relatively low.

A second surprise, more visits to doctors, tend to keep the overall cost
of health care down. On first glance, perhaps counter-intuitive, but not
after thinking about it.

This country's obesity, as you pointed out above, is a problem.

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.


Harry, we can only take you for your word, but your experience is very much
in the minority.
Almost elitist in a way.

In this dismal economy and rising unemployment, some of the few bright spots
for careers are in the fields of medical technicians, EMT's, nurses and
aids that do not require a college education. They require training and
certification of course, but they are fully qualified to perform many basic
procedures, leaving the RNs and Doctors free to deal with more important
activities.

With the shortage of RN's, we should be encouraging it.




It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time
I see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.

Calif Bill wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:54:34 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 05:27:08 -0700 (PDT), Jack

wrote:

Ah... it sounded like you were complaining about the high cost of
insurance. But now I understand that you're both "retired", with
your
wife choosing to work at a basic job where the insurance cost 25% of
her pay. Nothing wrong with that.

No, my wife is 17 years younger than me and will be working for a
long
time yet, insurance or not. And she's the highest paid in her unit
except for the manager. The rest there can't afford the insurance,
so
they go to the e-room for everything. That's the problem. The high
cost of health care/insurance. There ain't no free lunch except the
one those paying for health insurance are buying for the others.
Whether I complain about it or not, you may have noticed that others
are.

I agree that the people who choose to not insure, then use the
emergency room for free health care is a problem. However, if
you're
rooting for national health care so your wife can quit work and I'll
have to pick up your health care tab... well, I have a problem with
that.

Tell me your problem with paying my SS and I'll shed a couple tears.
My problem isn't with paying, it's with a system that only *some* pay
into, and a system that locks people into jobs because health
insurance isn't universally available and portable. Stifles and puts
artificial constraints into movement in the job market, and gives
foreigners a competitive edge in trade.

--Vic
Part of our high costs are the E room. I had a toothache while in
Sorrento, Italy. A Saturday and no dentist working. I was told to go
to the local hospital and go to the "Pronto Soccorso" entrance.
Happens to be free to everyone, foreign, locals etc. Was like a walk
in doctors office. There were people there with hurting ankle, etc.
Had a Doctor, nurse & aid and clerk. No big tests, no major
equipment. If you needed more, they sent you to the hospital, where I
would have had to pay. Much cheaper setup than our E rooms and Urgent
Care clinics.
I guess if you could get it by the Doctopr/Nurse union the government
could cut a lot of this off at the pass by opening store front "Quack
in the box" operations in the places where poor people live. They
could staff it with military or ex-military medical people when they
stop the war. My niece was a navy Corpsman for 12 years. If she can
treat the aches and pains of a ship full of sailors or save a Marine
with a sucking chest wound, there is not much in the ghetto she can't
handle. Unfortunately they want her to go to another 4 year course
before she can give someone, stateside, a shot.

And I thought we were over "separate and unequal."
Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcomes that drives you
Harry?

I wouldn't see a non-physician or nurse practitioner for a medical
issue. Why should a poor person? The nurses who draw my blood for tests
or give me a flu shot, et cetera, are college graduate nurses who have
passed board exams, are licensed, and required to continue their
educations during their professional life.
RN's are not required to have a college degree. Medical corpsman do not
have college degrees nor do Army medics. Most EMTs and Phlebotomists do
not have college degrees either. Why are you shunning highly trained,
certified and licensed working stiffs? Hell some of them are in unions.
Nice of you to screw over the union guys you elitist snob.

I have a sister who started out as an LPN, became an RN, received her BSN
and now is an NP.

I don't "shop" for nurses. The ones I encounter at my doctor's officesare
college grads who have passed exams and are licensed. That's who the
doctors at our PPO hire.





Your doctors hire the nurse if she has a state license. As an RN (who later
got her degree) my mom stated one time we see if they are breathing before
we hire them. Shortage of nurses. Most nurses now get a degree. As the
nursing schools partner up with colleges. My mom went to school for 3
years, 11 months a year for a total of 33 months to get her RN. This was
1932. Which is almost the same time it takes for a 4 year college degree.
There is a nursing shortage. My mom at 90 years old, and still having a
valid registration (she worked until she was 91) got lots of offers for the
Registry. Fill in nurses.




Now you are telling me *who* the doctors at the practice I utilize hire?

You boys are something else. What, I don't know.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...

It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time I
see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.


When you were a kid did you also pedal your bicycle backwards?

Eisboch

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 10:55:55 -0700, Jim wrote:

Jack wrote:
Reformers' Claims Just Don't Add Up
By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Friday, July 17, 2009 4:20 PM PT

Health Reform: Many extravagant claims have been made on behalf of the
various health care "reforms" now emerging from Congress and the White
House. But on closer inspection, virtually all prove to be false.


I have what is continually described as "Gold Plated Health Care," by
those who tell me I have have the best and how happy I am, and get the
best health care in the world.

My hearing changed one afternoon, lost all high frequency hearing in the
right ear. This is "Sudden Hearing loss." According to what I have
read, immediate treatment (within one week) might restore the lost hearing.

The first Ear, Nose and Throat specialist insisted it was long term
hearing loss and isn't treatable.

Second opinion, second doctor, several days later, recognized it as
sudden hearing loss and sent me for an MRI, but no treatment was offered.

Got a referral to a good specialist, had to wait two months for an
appointment. I'm still waiting.

Now, just why is it that the Canadian system would be worse?

Look at our own rendition in Massachusetts"

"The current average wait time to see a primary care physician in
Massachusetts is 36 days, up from 34 days in 2007, according to the
report."

http://tinyurl.com/mdtvxq

And,
http://www.boston.com/news/health/ar...doctors_grows/

How long did it take you to see the first doctor?
--

John H

Eisboch wrote:
"H the K" wrote in message
m...
It's elitist to "accept" the health care providers my doctor's office
provides to its patients. I'll have to tell my doctor that the next time I
see him...I'm sure he'll have a good laugh over it.

I don't select the staff there...the doctors who own the practice do.


When you were a kid did you also pedal your bicycle backwards?

Eisboch




Only when I shifted gears.

I'm sure my doc will get a kick out it when I tell him he has to hire
less qualified staff so the jackoffs on rec.boats will be happier with
the way he and his partners run their business.