On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:43:03 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Just John II wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Just John II wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:49:28 -0400, NotNow wrote:

J. Leo wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Keith Nuttle wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Aug 10, 11:05 am, H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:22:11 -0400, H the K
wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Aug 10, 10:09 am, Frogwatch wrote:
After the recent shortages in Cuba and Venezuela, Obama has
announced
an initiative to stockpile a vital commodity so as to be able to
send
stocks to areas experiencing shortages so as to prevent civil
unrest.
"The STPR will provide a cushion against any market bottom and in
the
end we will all appreciate this reserve" a whitehouse spokesman
said.
Our new Strategic Toilet Paper Reserve will be located in New
Orleans.
The point of this post is that whenever the govt tries to run the
economy, it fails. Cuba, a country that produces vast amounts of
sugar actually has sugar shortages. They could process all their
sugar cane waste into pulp to make toilet paper but of course
there is
no incentive so they now have shortages. Iran, nearly drowning in
oil
actually has gasoline shortages because the govt runs the industry
there. The same is true of Venezuela, shortages of fuel. The
Soviets
were great at building BFR (Big Fokkin Rockets) but were unable to
make any necesary consumer products. Government running of large
portions of an economy has been tried many many times and has always
been a miserable failure so we really do not need to do the
experiment
again.
Yeah. Medicare is a big failure. Right. D'oh.
Medicare is a good demonstration of how expensive government medical
care is tho. They spend 3% of every wage earned in this country,
covering about 15-16 % of the population and they are going broke
doing it. The people covered still need supplemental private
insurance.
All you are doing here is pointing out areas where Medicare can be
improved.
Yes, Medicare is a failure with a 30% fraud rate.
And you think, that when the government nationalizes the health care
industry, the fraud rate will go down? With government health care
there will be NO oversight to prevent fraud. If you want to see fraud
look at some of the current government programs.

With government insurance, the government will take 40% or more of your
income to pay for it, remove your input into your medical treatment, and
return less insurance coverage than you get now. That is if you are
considered a productive individual, otherwise you get nothing.
While I agree that that PROBABLY will happen, no one knows. Especially
those who haven't read the bill.
Which includes any Democrat that works on the hill, right?
--
John H

I specifically said "those who haven't read the bill".
I have yet to hear one Democrat say he has read the bill.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
Did all Republicans read (and understand) the bill?

One couldn't understand the cover page without help. Go try to read
it. It's designed not to be understood.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

And only the liberals would do that, right?

Right now we're talking about one bill. You keep trying to digress,
which is a great liberal tactic.

I'm through with you.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

In article ,
says...

"Keith Nuttle" wrote in message
...
Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:53:02 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

Vic Smith wrote:

Of course the "expense" of this Medicare plan is going as more and more
people opt out of the government managed insurance and go to the private
companies who participate in this plan. They get the same insurance
that the government provides plus they are treated as human not numbers
when they need assistance.

If this plan is eliminated, the cost of the government manage health
care will have to go up just to provide the additional staff to manage
the accounts now managed by the private company.

Didn't know that.
Many of the twists and turns aren't even being discussed.
I was surprised to learn that my dad, who's on Medicare, is still
paying close to $300 a month on supplementals.

I'm predicting they'll end up with gov subsidies for private health
care insurance, as they're already doing with the unemployed
Companies pay into the the unemployment fund per the number of people
they employee. Governments subsidizes it when the government uses the
money for other purposes, or when Government policies or actions cause
high unemployment. Example: the job loss caused by congress's action at
the end of September 2008.

What I was talking about is the gov started giving subsidies to those
who lost their job so they can maintain COBRA coverage. The employer
is out of the picture there. Don't know what the costs are, or how
many are using the subsidy. When you're unemployed, it's not easy to
pay health insurance premiums.
In '74 I took a leave of absence from IH to attend college, and paid
the full IH premium to keep my family insured. Even back then it was
eating most of my GI bill, which was close to $400 a month, so I had
to go back to work part-time to stay in school.
But then it was fairly easy to find a PT job with health benefits.
Not now.
The unemployment agencies are a perfect example of why we don't want the
government in our health care. I was on unemployment for several
months. During that time I never was able to get a phone call through
to a real person. I tried their email address and got an automated
response telling me to call the phone number that I had been trying for
days. If you have a problem with a government agency that needs
special handling you are SOL. Why do you think that most congressmen
have a special constituent assistance tab on their web pages.

Depends where you live, as that's state gov. I was on unemployment in
Illinois in '82 during the Great Reagan Mini-Depression and had no
issues after the initial wait-in-line- to sign up.
After that it was check in the mail every week I was on it, and fill
out a form to mail in once in a while. I hear they do direct deposit
now, but don't quote me.
--Vic

$300 a month for supplemental insurance is rather high, he must have all
of the bells and whistles. I am paying about %65/month for the
supplemental plans. That policies rebates most of the Medicare
deductibles, provides some dental insurance, and a couple of other minor
goodies. Payout for the supplemental insurance premium would be about
five years if I was hospitalized.


Wife and I both pay about $120 a month for the supplemental. And there is
also the $90 a month Medicare gets. Good deal or us but is still over $200
a month for each of us. No where near the Free Point.

My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else at
all... He has all the bells and whistles.

--
Wafa free since 2009

JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else at
all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide the
bells and whistles.

Just John II wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:43:03 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Just John II wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Just John II wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:49:28 -0400, NotNow wrote:

J. Leo wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:42:33 -0400, NotNow wrote:

Keith Nuttle wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Aug 10, 11:05 am, H the K wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:22:11 -0400, H the K
wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
On Aug 10, 10:09 am, Frogwatch wrote:
After the recent shortages in Cuba and Venezuela, Obama has
announced
an initiative to stockpile a vital commodity so as to be able to
send
stocks to areas experiencing shortages so as to prevent civil
unrest.
"The STPR will provide a cushion against any market bottom and in
the
end we will all appreciate this reserve" a whitehouse spokesman
said.
Our new Strategic Toilet Paper Reserve will be located in New
Orleans.
The point of this post is that whenever the govt tries to run the
economy, it fails. Cuba, a country that produces vast amounts of
sugar actually has sugar shortages. They could process all their
sugar cane waste into pulp to make toilet paper but of course
there is
no incentive so they now have shortages. Iran, nearly drowning in
oil
actually has gasoline shortages because the govt runs the industry
there. The same is true of Venezuela, shortages of fuel. The
Soviets
were great at building BFR (Big Fokkin Rockets) but were unable to
make any necesary consumer products. Government running of large
portions of an economy has been tried many many times and has always
been a miserable failure so we really do not need to do the
experiment
again.
Yeah. Medicare is a big failure. Right. D'oh.
Medicare is a good demonstration of how expensive government medical
care is tho. They spend 3% of every wage earned in this country,
covering about 15-16 % of the population and they are going broke
doing it. The people covered still need supplemental private
insurance.
All you are doing here is pointing out areas where Medicare can be
improved.
Yes, Medicare is a failure with a 30% fraud rate.
And you think, that when the government nationalizes the health care
industry, the fraud rate will go down? With government health care
there will be NO oversight to prevent fraud. If you want to see fraud
look at some of the current government programs.

With government insurance, the government will take 40% or more of your
income to pay for it, remove your input into your medical treatment, and
return less insurance coverage than you get now. That is if you are
considered a productive individual, otherwise you get nothing.
While I agree that that PROBABLY will happen, no one knows. Especially
those who haven't read the bill.
Which includes any Democrat that works on the hill, right?
--
John H

I specifically said "those who haven't read the bill".
I have yet to hear one Democrat say he has read the bill.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
Did all Republicans read (and understand) the bill?
One couldn't understand the cover page without help. Go try to read
it. It's designed not to be understood.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.
And only the liberals would do that, right?

Right now we're talking about one bill. You keep trying to digress,
which is a great liberal tactic.

I'm through with you.
--
John H

All decisions, even those made by liberals, are the result of binary thinking.

Yep, anything a liberal says = bad......
Anything a conservative says = good......

H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else
at all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide the
bells and whistles.

I suspect all the bells and whistles are provided by private insurance
companies.

Harry, you've lost it. You need to take advantage of your superb medical
plan and get psychiatric help ASAP. WAFA

H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else
at all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide the
bells and whistles.

No under obamacare he will have to pay a tax on all of the parts of his
health plan the government considers excessive. Yet the are not
limiting the health care insurance that a person can but!

Keith Nuttle wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else
at all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide
the bells and whistles.

No under obamacare he will have to pay a tax on all of the parts of his
health plan the government considers excessive. Yet the are not
limiting the health care insurance that a person can but!


Uh, under a federal program, JustHate may have something he doesn't have
now...health care insurance that actually covers his health care needs.

Your side's ranks are full of fools who bite their noses to spite their
faces. Your boy JustHate is one of these. He is one of those millions of
Americans who will directly benefit from health care insurance reform.

Under no circumstances would JustHate be paying taxes for health insurance.

"H the K" wrote in message
m...
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else at
all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide the
bells and whistles.

Lets see. Wife and I pay a little over $400 a month for Medicare. And for
many, many years before that we and our employers paid 3% of every earned
dollar in to the Medicare "fund". $3k a year will buy a really nice
annuity.

H the K wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything else
at all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide
the bells and whistles.

No under obamacare he will have to pay a tax on all of the parts of
his health plan the government considers excessive. Yet the are not
limiting the health care insurance that a person can but!


Uh, under a federal program, JustHate may have something he doesn't have
now...health care insurance that actually covers his health care needs.

How about everyone pay for what they use. And stop suing doctors because
your genetics are all screwed up, blame your parents.

Your side's ranks are full of fools who bite their noses to spite their
faces. Your boy JustHate is one of these. He is one of those millions of
Americans who will directly benefit from health care insurance reform.

How about tort reform first.

Under no circumstances would JustHate be paying taxes for health insurance.

What is the largest cost component of health care delivery?

BAR wrote:
H the K wrote:
Keith Nuttle wrote:
H the K wrote:
JustWait wrote:



My dad pays over 300 a month... But he doesn't pay for anything
else at all... He has all the bells and whistles.



So, JustWaitaFreak favors federal health care programs that provide
the bells and whistles.

No under obamacare he will have to pay a tax on all of the parts of
his health plan the government considers excessive. Yet the are not
limiting the health care insurance that a person can but!


Uh, under a federal program, JustHate may have something he doesn't
have now...health care insurance that actually covers his health care
needs.

How about everyone pay for what they use. And stop suing doctors because
your genetics are all screwed up, blame your parents.

Your side's ranks are full of fools who bite their noses to spite
their faces. Your boy JustHate is one of these. He is one of those
millions of Americans who will directly benefit from health care
insurance reform.

How about tort reform first.


Tort reform is not going to provide justhate with the health care he needs.