jps wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

jps wrote:
Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount
employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.


Full story here...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/
On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a
corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4%
increase in production does not mean that the employee is being
overworked as implied.
Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here
anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The
productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer
hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living.
No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your
deadwood.

You don't have to produce on a line to be productive.

We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line.
We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the
way it works.

Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths?

How well are those German screwdrivers helping you write software?

On Aug 12, 6:38*pm, Tim wrote:
On Aug 12, 8:51*am, wf3h wrote:



On Aug 12, 8:44*am, Tim wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:36*am, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:10*am, Tim wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:12*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:07*pm, jps wrote:

Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount
employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.

Full story here...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/

somebody has to take care of the rich. god knows they've suffered,
what with all the wall street problems.

we middle class folks will muddle through but our first obligation,
before family, before self, before anything...is to care for the rich

Be glad there's rich people, otherwise you couldn't afford that boat
you just bought ,

yeah that's what they tell us, isn't it? and they deserve to be rich,
regardless of what they do, don't they? they trash the economic
system; we pay for it. they trash their companies; we pay for it. no
matter what they do, we should grovel before them and thank them for
being rich, no matter what it costs us.

and we should be thankful there are people like you to remind us what
a privilege it is to serve rich people, no matter what they do. serfs
are always needed to carry the slop buckets and they should be glad
for the work

you kill me, you know that?

I'm not saying they deserve what they have or haven't got. But they do
have it.

I have some very wealthy friends and I don't feel like they owe me
anything.

If you feel like a serf then that's your problem or privilege.

what i do feel is that the rich will take care of themselves. i don't
need to be reminded of how fortunate we are to have them around.

Sure they will and always have. And of course you don't need to be
reminded, especially when you're on you're boat that I'm speculating
you couldn't have afforded to buy when it was new.

that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's,
derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the
rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they
came and raided mine

jps wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

jps wrote:
Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year
compared
to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount
employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The
jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra
work
came with a smaller paycheck.


Full story here...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/
On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a
corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4%
increase in production does not mean that the employee is being
overworked as implied.
Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here
anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The
productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer
hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living.
No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your
deadwood.

You don't have to produce on a line to be productive.

We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line.
We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the
way it works.

Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths?



I only worked for 2 behemoths. 6 startup companies and my own construction
equipment leasing company was small. And we got rid of deadwood in the
startups whenever there was a slow down if it was not closing the doors.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:02:06 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:16:24 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Aug 12, 12:23*am, "CalifBill" wrote:
"wf3h" wrote in message

...
On Aug 11, 9:10 pm, Keith Nuttle wrote:



jps wrote:

Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount
employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.

Full story here...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/

On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a
corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4%
increase in production does not mean that the employee is being
overworked as implied.

what really happened is that so many people got laid off, productivity
increased because the output/worker increased.

Maybe the deadwood went first.

yeah, that's the cliche they want you to believe
From what I have seen in layoffs since the early 90s is they dump the
senior staff first and work their way down the seniority ladder until
they only have the new people who make the least amount of money.

Doesn't mean that they're also the least compentent but usually.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 15:38:01 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Aug 12, 8:51*am, wf3h wrote:
On Aug 12, 8:44*am, Tim wrote:



On Aug 12, 7:36*am, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:10*am, Tim wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:12*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:07*pm, jps wrote:

Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount
employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.

Full story here...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/

somebody has to take care of the rich. god knows they've suffered,
what with all the wall street problems.

we middle class folks will muddle through but our first obligation,
before family, before self, before anything...is to care for the rich

Be glad there's rich people, otherwise you couldn't afford that boat
you just bought ,

yeah that's what they tell us, isn't it? and they deserve to be rich,
regardless of what they do, don't they? they trash the economic
system; we pay for it. they trash their companies; we pay for it. no
matter what they do, we should grovel before them and thank them for
being rich, no matter what it costs us.

and we should be thankful there are people like you to remind us what
a privilege it is to serve rich people, no matter what they do. serfs
are always needed to carry the slop buckets and they should be glad
for the work

you kill me, you know that?

I'm not saying they deserve what they have or haven't got. But they do
have it.

I have some very wealthy friends and I don't feel like they owe me
anything.

If you feel like a serf then that's your problem or privilege.

what i do feel is that the rich will take care of themselves. i don't
need to be reminded of how fortunate we are to have them around.

Sure they will and always have. And of course you don't need to be
reminded, especially when you're on you're boat that I'm speculating
you couldn't have afforded to buy when it was new.

Sure wish they'd pass some of them Tiffany diamonds on at a
depreciated price. I can't afford to buy them.

Tim, hope you're living a life of near poverty 'cause you sure seem to
cotton to it easily. That'll leave more money for the rest of us.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 05:44:35 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:39*am, H the K wrote:
wf3h wrote:
On Aug 12, 7:10 am, Tim wrote:
On Aug 11, 9:12 pm, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:07 pm, jps wrote:
Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.
The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount
employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.
That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.
Full story here...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/
somebody has to take care of the rich. god knows they've suffered,
what with all the wall street problems.
we middle class folks will muddle through but our first obligation,
before family, before self, before anything...is to care for the rich
Be glad there's rich people, otherwise you couldn't afford that boat
you just bought ,

yeah that's what they tell us, isn't it? and they deserve to be rich,
regardless of what they do, don't they? they trash the economic
system; we pay for it. they trash their companies; we pay for it. no
matter what they do, we should grovel before them and thank them for
being rich, no matter what it costs us.

and we should be thankful there are people like you to remind us what
a privilege it is to serve rich people, no matter what they do. serfs
are always needed to carry the slop buckets and they should be glad
for the work

you kill me, you know that?

You never know when a crumb might fall from the table of the rich and
you'll get to drive it.

And it was a very delicious crum indeed!

May I have some more sir?

No! you little scum!

On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote:
On Aug 12, 6:38*pm, Tim wrote:



On Aug 12, 8:51*am, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 12, 8:44*am, Tim wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:36*am, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 12, 7:10*am, Tim wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:12*pm, wf3h wrote:

On Aug 11, 9:07*pm, jps wrote:

Feel like you’re working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay — or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are..

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year compared
to a year ago. At the same time, “unit labor costs” — the amount
employers paid for all that extra work — fell by 5.8 percent. The jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra work
came with a smaller paycheck.

Full story here...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/

somebody has to take care of the rich. god knows they've suffered,
what with all the wall street problems.

we middle class folks will muddle through but our first obligation,
before family, before self, before anything...is to care for the rich

Be glad there's rich people, otherwise you couldn't afford that boat
you just bought ,

yeah that's what they tell us, isn't it? and they deserve to be rich,
regardless of what they do, don't they? they trash the economic
system; we pay for it. they trash their companies; we pay for it. no
matter what they do, we should grovel before them and thank them for
being rich, no matter what it costs us.

and we should be thankful there are people like you to remind us what
a privilege it is to serve rich people, no matter what they do. serfs
are always needed to carry the slop buckets and they should be glad
for the work

you kill me, you know that?

I'm not saying they deserve what they have or haven't got. But they do
have it.

I have some very wealthy friends and I don't feel like they owe me
anything.

If you feel like a serf then that's your problem or privilege.

what i do feel is that the rich will take care of themselves. i don't
need to be reminded of how fortunate we are to have them around.

Sure they will and always have. And of course you don't need to be
reminded, especially when you're on you're boat that I'm speculating
you couldn't have afforded to buy when it was new.

that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's,
derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the
rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they
came and raided mine

many wealthy do too!, one of the hundreds of examples was Leo Fender
who ran a record store and radio repair shop in the 40's, in about
1965 he sold Fender Musical Instruments Company to CBS (Yes, the
broadcasting company) for over $6. Mil. . He didn't sell it because he
had to, but they came up with a price he couldn't refuse.

Leo didn't sell "CDO's, derivatives, REIT, or other financial
instruments that have made the rich so rich,"

So, not a bad return for 20 years of hard work.


Now Joe Kennedy? He was a self made millionaire, but how he got his?

er.....

Well, lets say he made his in "sales"

Calif Bill wrote:
jps wrote:
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:03:52 -0700, "CalifBill"
wrote:

"jps" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:10:59 -0400, Keith Nuttle
wrote:

jps wrote:
Feel like you're working a lot harder these days, putting in longer
hours for the same pay - or even less? The latest round of government
data on worker productivity indicates that you probably are.

The Labor Department said Tuesday that the American work force
produced, at an annual rate, 6.4 percent more of the goods they made
and services they provided in the second quarter of this year
compared
to a year ago. At the same time, "unit labor costs" - the amount
employers paid for all that extra work - fell by 5.8 percent. The
jump
in productivity was higher than expected; the cut in labor costs more
than double expectations.

That is, despite the deep job cuts of the past year, workers who
remain on the payroll are filling in and making up the work that had
been done by their departed colleagues. In some cases, that extra
work
came with a smaller paycheck.


Full story here...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32374533...n_the_economy/
On todays production lines the volume can be increased without a
corresponding increase in the effort of the individual. So a 6.4%
increase in production does not mean that the employee is being
overworked as implied.
Don't know if you're heard, we don't have production lines here
anymore. We're in the service business and military arms. The
productivity gains come from less workers doing more, working longer
hours for pay that doesn't keep up with the rising cost of living.
No production, so we could not raise productivity. You kept all your
deadwood.
You don't have to produce on a line to be productive.

We write software, it doesn't benefit from a faster production line.
We are doing more with less people. When times are lean, that's the
way it works.

Did you ever work for an entreprenurial company or only behemoths?


I only worked for 2 behemoths. 6 startup companies and my own construction
equipment leasing company was small. And we got rid of deadwood in the
startups whenever there was a slow down if it was not closing the doors.

I worked for a behemoth and we lopped off the bottom 10% every 6 months.
Our manufacturing was outsourced to a company in Utah that put CD's
into a box and shrink wrapped them. We were constantly having to rate
our employees into A, B, C and D categories. Those in the D category got
the ax.

On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote:
On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote:



that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's,
derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the
rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they
came and raided mine

many wealthy do too!,

tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people
work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on
that...

find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy
league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to
that. it's less than 3%

so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they
don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my
401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts

THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let
me do this.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2009 19:03:29 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

On Aug 12, 8:19*pm, Tim wrote:
On Aug 12, 6:53*pm, wf3h wrote:



that's correct. i work honestly for my living. i don't sell CDO's,
derivatives, REIT, or other financial instruments that have made the
rich so rich, and, when they trashed their own bank accounts, they
came and raided mine

many wealthy do too!,

tell you what. you go find the record of how many middle class people
work their way into the top 2% of americans and get back to us on
that...

find out how many children of blue collar workers go to the ivy
league...the gateway to networking...actually i know the answer to
that. it's less than 3%

so, actually, many wealthy don't work. they take my money so they
don't have to work for theirs. they kill my pension plan, destroy my
401K, and get me to pay for their bailouts

THEN they get people like you to tell me how fortunate i am they let
me do this.

No, he said that you'd be fortunate to buy their castoffs for cheap,
when they're done using them.

He didn't mention the part about most of us working our entire lives
to facilitate their purchase of high priced goods.