On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:35:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
om...

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:51:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

And Clinton was killing people in Irag, Bosnia, and allowed Ben Ladin
to
walk, so he could plan and train the pilots on his watch. They both
suck.
They suck as much as you suck and that is a whole bunch of suck.

Allowed bin Laden to walk? How's that? He tried to get him several times.

I think that when two guys are talking about sucking, it's time to try a
different thread.
He is talking about when Sudan offered up Bin Laden and Clinton didn't
know what we could charge him with so he didn't act.

Personally I think we should have just sent a team of Africans (with
plausible deniability to the US) in there to shoot him in the head but
I may be too pragmatic.


I would have sent Delta Force unit. No real prohibition against shooting
him. The Executive order against assassinations is against leaders of a
country.

Why wasn't this done? We certainly knew where he was in Tora Bora. Instead
of using US personnel, we relied on local militia, who let him go.

We thought we 'knew' that he was in Tora Bora. We didn't know 'where'
in Tora Bora. Tora Bora is a pretty good sized area with lots of
hiding places, as you can see:

http://papundits.files.wordpress.com...ora-fata-8.jpg

Some more info on the Tora Bora battle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tora_Bora

Do some more reading. That was a foolish question.

--

John H

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:35:13 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:59GdnYnDoLlwCzPXnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@earthlink. com...

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:51:22 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

And Clinton was killing people in Irag, Bosnia, and allowed Ben Ladin
to
walk, so he could plan and train the pilots on his watch. They both
suck.
They suck as much as you suck and that is a whole bunch of suck.

Allowed bin Laden to walk? How's that? He tried to get him several
times.

I think that when two guys are talking about sucking, it's time to try
a
different thread.
He is talking about when Sudan offered up Bin Laden and Clinton didn't
know what we could charge him with so he didn't act.

Personally I think we should have just sent a team of Africans (with
plausible deniability to the US) in there to shoot him in the head but
I may be too pragmatic.


I would have sent Delta Force unit. No real prohibition against
shooting
him. The Executive order against assassinations is against leaders of a
country.

Why wasn't this done? We certainly knew where he was in Tora Bora. Instead
of using US personnel, we relied on local militia, who let him go.

We thought we 'knew' that he was in Tora Bora. We didn't know 'where'
in Tora Bora. Tora Bora is a pretty good sized area with lots of
hiding places, as you can see:

http://papundits.files.wordpress.com...ora-fata-8.jpg

Some more info on the Tora Bora battle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tora_Bora

Do some more reading. That was a foolish question.

--

John H


So stupid... except you didn't even bother to read the article...

"A search of the area by U.S. forces continued into January, but no sign of
bin Laden or the al-Qaeda leadership emerged. Former CIA officer Gary
Berntsen, who led the CIA team (consisting primarily of CIA Paramilitary
Officers from Special Activities Division) in Afghanistan that was tasked
with locating Osama bin Laden, claims in his 2005 book Jawbreaker that he
and his team had pinpointed the location of Osama bin Laden."

--
Nom=de=Plume

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:48:29 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:32 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:43:48 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:35:26 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
9/11 came and went without much fanfare. I wonder why that is. Far less
people were killed at Pearl Harbor, but the outrage was much more. I
thought it was sad that so many have forgotten so soon, so many think it was
a conspiracy from within, and that we don't have to worry about future
terrorism. We are all so safe now that terrorism has been removed from the
vocabulary.

Steve
Forgetting is politically expedient for nearly half of the country...

Obama is keeping us safe from the evil terrorists, just like the right
claimed Bush was doing because there wasn't an attack after 9/11
I think the Bush Admin. already took care of the heavy lifting... Using
your analogy, my Doctor has kept me safe from bubonic plague..

Your party was the one claiming that Bush was keeping us safe. And the
reasoning was because there hadn't been an attack since 9/11. SO, it's a
simple analogy that Obama is keeping us safe also. But, I honestly
suspected that you'd figure out a way to spin it so that Bush is the
hero, and Obama hasn't done anything. Typical and expected.
Loogy, I think you're correct on this one. 'Bama has done a super job
at preventing terrorist attacks. Of course, there's no such thing as a
terrorist attack, but he's been successful in preventing 'man made
disasters' also.

And, I've not caught bubonic plague either!
--

John H
You're missing the point! When Bush was president, you and other
righties made frequent comments about how safe he was keeping us because
we hadn't had an attack since 9/11. So it stands that Obama is doing a
great job at it too. I made several comments about how lame that
reasoning was.
Oh my goodness. You may be right again, although I can't remember
*ever* uttering a comment about how safe Bush was keeping us. Perhaps
you could find even *one* example of such?

And, I've done nothing *but* agree that 'Bama is doing a super job at
keeping us safe from man made disasters.

What the hell more do you want?
Yeah, me either but don't let that stop anybody from stereotyping us,
especially a representative of "the tolerant party"...
I can't figure Loogy out. Hell, I praise the hell out of 'Bama, but
it's never good enough.

Just today, 'Bama saved over 240,000 jobs. The guy is probably the
best leader since Moses.
--

John H
John, your condescending bull**** is getting old.

Loogy, you'd whine if someone ****ed in your beer.

Are you implying he *didn't* save 240,000 jobs today?
--

John H
No, I'm "implying" your condescending bull**** is getting old. AND lame.

That's a shame. I thought your '...we're eating the elderly...(or
whatever)..' were quite enlightening.

You **** and moan 'cause I don't say enough nice things about 'Bama,
then **** and moan when I do.

You tell me what you want me to say.

They don't want you to say anything...

--
Wafa free since 2009

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:48:29 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:32 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:43:48 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:35:26 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
9/11 came and went without much fanfare. I wonder why that is. Far less
people were killed at Pearl Harbor, but the outrage was much more. I
thought it was sad that so many have forgotten so soon, so many think it was
a conspiracy from within, and that we don't have to worry about future
terrorism. We are all so safe now that terrorism has been removed from the
vocabulary.

Steve
Forgetting is politically expedient for nearly half of the country...

Obama is keeping us safe from the evil terrorists, just like the right
claimed Bush was doing because there wasn't an attack after 9/11
I think the Bush Admin. already took care of the heavy lifting... Using
your analogy, my Doctor has kept me safe from bubonic plague..

Your party was the one claiming that Bush was keeping us safe. And the
reasoning was because there hadn't been an attack since 9/11. SO, it's a
simple analogy that Obama is keeping us safe also. But, I honestly
suspected that you'd figure out a way to spin it so that Bush is the
hero, and Obama hasn't done anything. Typical and expected.
Loogy, I think you're correct on this one. 'Bama has done a super job
at preventing terrorist attacks. Of course, there's no such thing as a
terrorist attack, but he's been successful in preventing 'man made
disasters' also.

And, I've not caught bubonic plague either!
--

John H
You're missing the point! When Bush was president, you and other
righties made frequent comments about how safe he was keeping us because
we hadn't had an attack since 9/11. So it stands that Obama is doing a
great job at it too. I made several comments about how lame that
reasoning was.
Oh my goodness. You may be right again, although I can't remember
*ever* uttering a comment about how safe Bush was keeping us. Perhaps
you could find even *one* example of such?

And, I've done nothing *but* agree that 'Bama is doing a super job at
keeping us safe from man made disasters.

What the hell more do you want?
Yeah, me either but don't let that stop anybody from stereotyping us,
especially a representative of "the tolerant party"...
I can't figure Loogy out. Hell, I praise the hell out of 'Bama, but
it's never good enough.

Just today, 'Bama saved over 240,000 jobs. The guy is probably the
best leader since Moses.
--

John H
John, your condescending bull**** is getting old.
Loogy, you'd whine if someone ****ed in your beer.

Are you implying he *didn't* save 240,000 jobs today?
--

John H
No, I'm "implying" your condescending bull**** is getting old. AND lame.
That's a shame. I thought your '...we're eating the elderly...(or
whatever)..' were quite enlightening.

You **** and moan 'cause I don't say enough nice things about 'Bama,
then **** and moan when I do.

You tell me what you want me to say.

They don't want you to say anything...


Rave on, right-wing morons. It's all you have left.



--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 17:20:02 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:48:29 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:32 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:43:48 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:35:26 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
9/11 came and went without much fanfare. I wonder why that is. Far less
people were killed at Pearl Harbor, but the outrage was much more. I
thought it was sad that so many have forgotten so soon, so many think it was
a conspiracy from within, and that we don't have to worry about future
terrorism. We are all so safe now that terrorism has been removed from the
vocabulary.

Steve
Forgetting is politically expedient for nearly half of the country...

Obama is keeping us safe from the evil terrorists, just like the right
claimed Bush was doing because there wasn't an attack after 9/11
I think the Bush Admin. already took care of the heavy lifting... Using
your analogy, my Doctor has kept me safe from bubonic plague..

Your party was the one claiming that Bush was keeping us safe. And the
reasoning was because there hadn't been an attack since 9/11. SO, it's a
simple analogy that Obama is keeping us safe also. But, I honestly
suspected that you'd figure out a way to spin it so that Bush is the
hero, and Obama hasn't done anything. Typical and expected.
Loogy, I think you're correct on this one. 'Bama has done a super job
at preventing terrorist attacks. Of course, there's no such thing as a
terrorist attack, but he's been successful in preventing 'man made
disasters' also.

And, I've not caught bubonic plague either!
--

John H
You're missing the point! When Bush was president, you and other
righties made frequent comments about how safe he was keeping us because
we hadn't had an attack since 9/11. So it stands that Obama is doing a
great job at it too. I made several comments about how lame that
reasoning was.
Oh my goodness. You may be right again, although I can't remember
*ever* uttering a comment about how safe Bush was keeping us. Perhaps
you could find even *one* example of such?

And, I've done nothing *but* agree that 'Bama is doing a super job at
keeping us safe from man made disasters.

What the hell more do you want?
Yeah, me either but don't let that stop anybody from stereotyping us,
especially a representative of "the tolerant party"...
I can't figure Loogy out. Hell, I praise the hell out of 'Bama, but
it's never good enough.

Just today, 'Bama saved over 240,000 jobs. The guy is probably the
best leader since Moses.
--

John H
John, your condescending bull**** is getting old.

Loogy, you'd whine if someone ****ed in your beer.

Are you implying he *didn't* save 240,000 jobs today?
--

John H
No, I'm "implying" your condescending bull**** is getting old. AND lame.

That's a shame. I thought your '...we're eating the elderly...(or
whatever)..' were quite enlightening.

You **** and moan 'cause I don't say enough nice things about 'Bama,
then **** and moan when I do.

You tell me what you want me to say.

They don't want you to say anything...

Well, who would explain the difficult analogies to them?

Loogy?
--

John H

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:48:29 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:32 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:43:48 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:35:26 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
9/11 came and went without much fanfare. I wonder why that is. Far less
people were killed at Pearl Harbor, but the outrage was much more. I
thought it was sad that so many have forgotten so soon, so many think it was
a conspiracy from within, and that we don't have to worry about future
terrorism. We are all so safe now that terrorism has been removed from the
vocabulary.

Steve
Forgetting is politically expedient for nearly half of the country...

Obama is keeping us safe from the evil terrorists, just like the right
claimed Bush was doing because there wasn't an attack after 9/11
I think the Bush Admin. already took care of the heavy lifting... Using
your analogy, my Doctor has kept me safe from bubonic plague..

Your party was the one claiming that Bush was keeping us safe. And the
reasoning was because there hadn't been an attack since 9/11. SO, it's a
simple analogy that Obama is keeping us safe also. But, I honestly
suspected that you'd figure out a way to spin it so that Bush is the
hero, and Obama hasn't done anything. Typical and expected.
Loogy, I think you're correct on this one. 'Bama has done a super job
at preventing terrorist attacks. Of course, there's no such thing as a
terrorist attack, but he's been successful in preventing 'man made
disasters' also.

And, I've not caught bubonic plague either!
--

John H
You're missing the point! When Bush was president, you and other
righties made frequent comments about how safe he was keeping us because
we hadn't had an attack since 9/11. So it stands that Obama is doing a
great job at it too. I made several comments about how lame that
reasoning was.
Oh my goodness. You may be right again, although I can't remember
*ever* uttering a comment about how safe Bush was keeping us. Perhaps
you could find even *one* example of such?

And, I've done nothing *but* agree that 'Bama is doing a super job at
keeping us safe from man made disasters.

What the hell more do you want?
Yeah, me either but don't let that stop anybody from stereotyping us,
especially a representative of "the tolerant party"...
I can't figure Loogy out. Hell, I praise the hell out of 'Bama, but
it's never good enough.

Just today, 'Bama saved over 240,000 jobs. The guy is probably the
best leader since Moses.
--

John H
John, your condescending bull**** is getting old.
Loogy, you'd whine if someone ****ed in your beer.

Are you implying he *didn't* save 240,000 jobs today?
--

John H
No, I'm "implying" your condescending bull**** is getting old. AND lame.

That's a shame. I thought your '...we're eating the elderly...(or
whatever)..' were quite enlightening.

You **** and moan 'cause I don't say enough nice things about 'Bama,
then **** and moan when I do.

You tell me what you want me to say.
--

John H

reverseHarryism.

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:48:29 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:41:32 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 20:43:48 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 16:35:06 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JohnH wrote:
On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:35:26 -0400, NotNow wrote:

JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
JustWait wrote:
In article ,
says...
9/11 came and went without much fanfare. I wonder why that is. Far less
people were killed at Pearl Harbor, but the outrage was much more. I
thought it was sad that so many have forgotten so soon, so many think it was
a conspiracy from within, and that we don't have to worry about future
terrorism. We are all so safe now that terrorism has been removed from the
vocabulary.

Steve
Forgetting is politically expedient for nearly half of the country...

Obama is keeping us safe from the evil terrorists, just like the right
claimed Bush was doing because there wasn't an attack after 9/11
I think the Bush Admin. already took care of the heavy lifting... Using
your analogy, my Doctor has kept me safe from bubonic plague..

Your party was the one claiming that Bush was keeping us safe. And the
reasoning was because there hadn't been an attack since 9/11. SO, it's a
simple analogy that Obama is keeping us safe also. But, I honestly
suspected that you'd figure out a way to spin it so that Bush is the
hero, and Obama hasn't done anything. Typical and expected.
Loogy, I think you're correct on this one. 'Bama has done a super job
at preventing terrorist attacks. Of course, there's no such thing as a
terrorist attack, but he's been successful in preventing 'man made
disasters' also.

And, I've not caught bubonic plague either!
--

John H
You're missing the point! When Bush was president, you and other
righties made frequent comments about how safe he was keeping us because
we hadn't had an attack since 9/11. So it stands that Obama is doing a
great job at it too. I made several comments about how lame that
reasoning was.
Oh my goodness. You may be right again, although I can't remember
*ever* uttering a comment about how safe Bush was keeping us. Perhaps
you could find even *one* example of such?

And, I've done nothing *but* agree that 'Bama is doing a super job at
keeping us safe from man made disasters.

What the hell more do you want?
Yeah, me either but don't let that stop anybody from stereotyping us,
especially a representative of "the tolerant party"...
I can't figure Loogy out. Hell, I praise the hell out of 'Bama, but
it's never good enough.

Just today, 'Bama saved over 240,000 jobs. The guy is probably the
best leader since Moses.
--

John H
John, your condescending bull**** is getting old.
Loogy, you'd whine if someone ****ed in your beer.

Are you implying he *didn't* save 240,000 jobs today?
--

John H
No, I'm "implying" your condescending bull**** is getting old. AND lame.
That's a shame. I thought your '...we're eating the elderly...(or
whatever)..' were quite enlightening.

You **** and moan 'cause I don't say enough nice things about 'Bama,
then **** and moan when I do.

You tell me what you want me to say.

They don't want you to say anything...


Where did I say that?

"Gene" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:23:04 -0700 (PDT), wf3h penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

| We were attacked by 19 Saudis who did as much of this planning in
| western Europe as anywhere.

Did the Saudis have a grudge? Why were they all Saudis? Was the Saudi
Connection ever investigated or punished? Why?


Oil. Don't you remember Bush II holding hands with the prince...

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Sep 16, 1:22*am, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:48:11 -0700, "nom=de=plume"





wrote:
wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:37:41 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

Let's hope Obama doesn't break that record but the worst days of the
"good war" are on Obama's watch. I still am not sure why we are
there.
http://icasualties.org/oef/

I don't have a good feeling about increasing troop strength at this
point.
As Obama said (paraphrasing), the generals are thinking about the war,
the
president needs to think about the world.

The interesting thing to me was said on Anderson Cooper the other
night from Afghanistan. It turns out we don't even think Bin Laden is
there anymore and that the Taliban has absolutely no global
aspirations. Their connection to Al Queda is tenuous at best.-

today that's true. wasn't true on 9/11.

If you believe that you are saying GWB was right and BHO is wrong. Are
you sure you don't want to reconsider?
Personally I don't believe the Taliban has ever had any grudge with
the US beyond our invading their country and if we leave they won't
care about us at all. They tolerated al queda but, I doubt they had
anything to do with 9-11

?? The Taliban were clearly supporting bin laden, although not many years
prior to 9/11, certainly leading up to it. They did more than tolerate them.
They actively supported them in the timeframe I notes.

It wasn't all that many years since Bin Laden was in Sudan 3 years
earlier (when Clinton let him go) We punished them by blowing up their
aspirin factory and killing a security guard. That showed them!

Support? What kind of support? If you mean they let him use a cave, so
what.

they didn't let him 'use a cave'. he was in power, bankrolling the
taliban regime. we insisted he be turned over to us. they refused.
but you seem willing to ignore that.

These guys are Saudis. Rich Saudis. What did we do to Saudi Arabia? We
held their hand and gave them $100 for oil

the saudis practice wahabi islam, a paranoid, hated filled view of an
already backward religion. it's no wonder most of the killers were
saudi.

On Sep 16, 1:04*am, wrote:
On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:24:26 -0700 (PDT), wf3h
wrote:

What is so hard to believe? If the Americans bombed your village and
killed your family, wouldn't you want some payback?

if murderers had killed someone else then took refuge in my house, i'd
certainly blame them if the other person blew up my house.

why is that so hard to believe?

The murders died in the plane crash ... unless you are a "911
truther".

wrong. not ALL the murderers did. you're a remarkably ignorant moron
even for a right winger.

khalid sheikh mohammed planned the attacks. he didn't die on 9/11.
osama gave approval and helped bankroll it. he didn't die in the
attack.

so you need to learn a bit more about history

The rest of this "war" is just chasing a ghost who may have really
been killed in Tora Bora years ago. Even those who say Bin Laden is
alive say he is NOT in Afghanistan.
To follow your analogy, we would still be bombing Japan for Pearl
Harbor.

if the japanese hadn't surrendered, yes.




I do find it strange that the same people who called Bush a moron and
a tyrant for the exact same war are now supporting Obama.

we don't. you obviously don't know why bush was an idiot.

You don't support the war? ... and no I don't think Bush was an idiot,
he was just not well spoken. Obama is pretty much duplicating his
policies. (war, debt and rights violations)

the reason bush was an idiot is he's done nothing about the war in
afghanistan. he ignored calls for more troops, for building the afghan
security services, for working with pakistan to destroy the taliban,
etc...




At least I am consistent. I think they are both stupid to be in this
war.

IOW you have no principles on which to base your conclusions.

The principle I have is this war is totally ineffective, even if you
believe killing thousands of random Taliban (and as many innocent
civilians) will stop global terrorism. We still can't kill them all.
Islamic terrorists can come from anywhere. There are a billion of them
in the pool and it only took 19 on 9/11.
The war is stupid, It is just our 21st century Vietnam.-

i guess if you can't think outside the box and have a religious faith
in cliches, then, yes, it would seem like vietnam.

to those of us who follow what islamists are actually saying, have
read qutb, azzam, huntington, etc., it's a cultural war that may take
generations. but that's hardly unique in world history.