On Oct 5, 8:31*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:
On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. :)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. :)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. :)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) ~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.



You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.



--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Oct 5, 8:54*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* * I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools..

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.


But i won't

On 10/5/09 9:57 PM, Tim wrote:
On Oct 5, 8:54 pm, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. :)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. :)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. :)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) ~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.


But i won't



A *taught* option in the public schools?

Absolutely not.


--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 17:57:55 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 18:45:07 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:56:51 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:55:29 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

All science is based on "viewpoints". What the heck do you think
drives scientific inquiry? One scientist's view is that Global Warming
is real. A different scientist looking at the same data calls
bulls**t. Openheimer felt that testing an atom bomb would set the
atmosphere on fire. Others didn't.

None of those "viewpoints" are science however, just opinions or
hypotheses. They become science, or not, after evaluation of the
underlying theory (if any), experimental proof by multiple
individuals, and peer review. Then it's not a viewpoint any longer.

You would think so wouldn't you?

Guess what - it's not.

Read this when you have the time - it's about "peer reviewed" science
and a story that deserves to be told.

And remember - it's all about "peer reviewed science" and how
viewpoints can't possibly affect the "science" once it's been peer
reviewed.

http://tinyurl.com/y855r3v


Yeah, but that's weather, AKA GW.
Everybody knows weather isn't science.
Scientists might talk about it, but since everybody knows the
weatherman can't predict jack beyond a day out, it can't be considered
"science."

Yeah - but they THINK they can and that's what makes it dangerous.

BTW, one of my fav SF short stories had meteorologists navigating
in the sun to tweak the weather.
They were on a special mission to honor the dying founder of the
service, who was laying on a chaise on a tropical beach for his last
breaths.
They were successful. It snowed on him and only him as he kicked off.
Don't remember title or author.
Leave that to old alien jarheads.

Theodore L. "Ted" Thomas - "The Weather Man" - 1962.

You can't stump The Master. :)

On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:59:41 -0500, wrote:

"What-if's" of theory are usually subject to Popper's Theory of
Falsification, or are a part of the logic that determines whether
theory is falsifiable. This is the tool that opponents of intelligent
Design employ to challenge Creationism or ID, Tim. And it's been used
successfully in the court room to enjoin school districts to restrict
the teaching of Intelligent Design. Since aspects of the metaphysical
are not capable of being falsifiable, then the metaphysical does not
qualify as having proper scientific foundation and Intelligent Design
consequently has no room in the classroom, according to the courts.
Popper's Falsifiability is a tidy, proven method for assessing the
soundness of theory; but, faith and science are two different,
disparate universes.

Interesting you should bring him up. I always liked Hawking's
explanation of Falsification - "No matter how many times the results
of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the
next time the result will not contradict the theory."

Which kind of dovetails with another of his more famous statements:
“The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that
events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a
certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired.”

Oh this could get really deep 'ya know? :)

On Oct 5, 9:11*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:21:22 -0700 (PDT), Tim
wrote:

On Oct 5, 5:04*pm, Vic Smith wrote:

What I find strange is that some people have boats, and others don't.

I never thought of it that way, Vic.

i suppose I haven't evolved to higher intelligence.

Woe is me....

For a small fee I would be glad to provide you with the essential
inner knowledge to free your mind and increase your intelligence.

Tom, I appreciate the offer, but I have plenty of .22 shells.

On Oct 5, 9:00*pm, H the K wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:57 PM, Tim wrote:



On Oct 5, 8:54 pm, H the *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:40 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:31 pm, H the * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 9:27 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 7:48 pm, H the * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 7:51 PM, Tim wrote:

On Oct 5, 8:50 am, H the * * * *wrote:
On 10/5/09 8:48 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 08:08:10 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:57:35 -0400,
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 23:09:17 -0400, Wayne.B
* * * * *wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:36:03 -0400, JohnRant
* * * * *wrote:

Why should public school students be subjected to the faith based
beliefs of others?

Why should students not be told of the beliefs of others?

That's fine if you're teaching a course on religion, not so fine if
you're teaching a course called science.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning the controversy in a science
class.

We'll have to disagree on that. * Once you accomodate the faith based
belief of your choice in science class, where do you stop?

You can say that about anything. *Mainstreaming special ed students
started off as just one period a day - now it's an entire school day.
Used to be band and drama were after school activities, then one
period a week, then every day.

Just sayin'. *:)

There are quite a few different interpretations of the Book of Genesis,
not to mention all the other religions of the world.

Heh. You know it's funny - most religions, faiths, primitive pagans
and assorted heathens mostly agree - first there was nothing and then
there was something.

Now I grant you, the various reinterpretations of Genesis by flawed
humans promoting their own ideas presents conflicting/competing dogma,
but at the essential points, they are pretty much in agreement.

Well except for me that is - I still think it was Aliens. *:)

If you take a literal interpretation of Genesis, it was caused by God.
But another way to interpret Genesis is with an eye towards evolution.
Try it sometime - it's a fun exercise.

Science and the scientific method are about provable facts.

True enough. Fairly obvious.

Everything else is religion or philosophy.

I agree - global warming, peak oil, wind/solar energy. *:)

~~ now come one - you just knew that was coming :) *~~

The point was the relevance of creationism in science classes or,
indeed, in public schools. No relevance, should not be discussed except
perhaps as an example of religious superstition.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

There's many things that science can't explain, Harry.

* * *I myself haven't seen anything in the Bible that would discount dyed-
in-the-wool, rock hard, chiseled-in-stone proof of scientific
anything.

however, I don't see science being the absolute authority on the
beginning of mankind, or beyond *to before the Universes.

So, until science can present solid proof of origins of creation (big
bang theory included) I'll remain a Creationist that believes in
"Intelligent Design"

besides, *even if you leave out the Judao-christian belief system, it
really does no harm to look at another point of view in school as an
option, because I never hear evolution as being called "fact" but I
hear it called "theory" a lot. And weather answerable, or unanswerable
questions, there's too many "what if's" with theory.

I don't care what you or any other "believer" believes...just keep it
out of the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Thank you for your input, Harry. I'll take that into consideration.

I don't mean that in a negative way, Tim. I simply am opposed to the
*teaching* of any sort of religious beliefs in the K-12 public schools.

I am 100% supportive of private religious beliefs that are taught at
home, in church/synagogue/mosque schools and at the various houses of
worship.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

I'm sorry if I took it a bit personal,Harry. I'm not a "Crammer" but I
believe it (Creationism) should be allowed as an option.or at least
not discouraged.

You'll get no argument from me, so long as creationism is not taught in
the public schools.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

harry, I take it you wouldnt' consider it an option. so....

I suppose we could argue.

But i won't

A *taught* option in the public schools?

Absolutely not.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

Everything in school is "Taught" Harry. Otherwise it wouldn't' be a
school.

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:08:51 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:



Theodore L. "Ted" Thomas - "The Weather Man" - 1962.

You can't stump The Master. :)

Hehe. That would be counterproductive.
I figured you would produce. Thanks.

--Vic