On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:08:13 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:

will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

You are an ass.

Does anyone in your family take you seriously?

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:48:38 -0500, thunder
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:08:13 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/he...y/11cost.html?
pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

Funny, after reading that article, you find Obama the problem. After
reading that article, I find lobbyists the problem. If we don't get them
in check, we will lose our democracy. The incestuous relationship
between campaign finance and corporate pork, is the biggest threat to our
democracy.

It's a non-partisan issue. Both sides have their hands out, and we have
a Supreme Court that has given First Amendment protections to the money
giving whores, albeit limited protection.

Follow the money:

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=c

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2009...s-of-lobbyist-
giv.html


We'll see how the final health care bill looks.
Jack posted the lobbyists in the Obama admin.
Don't forget that Daschle is/was a health care lobbyist.
Besides being a tax cheater, ala what's-his-name, the guy from the NY
fed and a bunch of the other pols. Geithner.
Our "leaders."
Here's something nobody even talks about in - in plain language.
And that goes for the Dems in charge too.
A big part of proposed health care solutions from both Dem and Rep
sides is gov subsidies for lower-income folks.
Subsidies to buy for-profit health insurance.
And I've seen "lower-icome" defined up to $70k for a family of 4.
Without a public non-corporate health insurance option, this is simple
corporate communism.
It's so darn stupid it makes me sweat behind the ears.
Corporate commies calling the backers of public-option/revenue neutral
health insurance "socialists."
There are a number of health care models around the world that give
better results than ours, and reduce costs to the national economy.
We're too darn busy throwing political stones here to see the writing
on the wall, and instead reinvent the wheel - but it's a square wheel.
That's why there is ever-increasing speculation that the dollar will
soon go away as the premier international currency.
That won't hurt the leaders of course, because they can arbitrage and
make killings trading goods produced elsewhere.
Greed is good.
The facts about what works and what doesn't are well known.
Everybody who can read should have seen the stats on health care costs
and health results from out competitors by now.
But the Dems and Reps have their followers throwing eggs at each other
while they all suck up corporate money gathered up from the little
folks.
Don't even get me started on why no H1N1 vaccine is produced in the
U.S., but it all has to be imported.
America can't even make a vaccine here.
Don't think we can even make a washing machine anymore.
Change is coming all right. That's for sure.
But being the eternal optimist, I say it will all work out.
As in life is a bitch, then you die.
Which isn't a bad life compared to, say....a guppie.
Just kidding. I'm enjoying life just fine. Could use some more
Florida fish and sun though.

--Vic

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:20:44 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:


We'll see how the final health care bill looks. Jack posted the
lobbyists in the Obama admin. Don't forget that Daschle is/was a health
care lobbyist. Besides being a tax cheater, ala what's-his-name, the guy
from the NY fed and a bunch of the other pols. Geithner. Our "leaders."

Don't pay too much attention to the lobbyists list posted. It's as full
of "Hot Air" as the blog it came from. There are only two names on that
list that pose any concern, William Lynn and Mark Patterson. Tom Vilsack
may have been lobbied for the NEA, but he was also Governor of Iowa for 8
years. He should know something about agriculture. And William Corr as
Deputy Health and Human Services? He was a lobbyist for the Campaign for
Tobacco-Free Kids. Where's the conflict there?

If you recall, Geithner was a hold-over from the Bush administration.
The reasoning was not to change horses in mid-stream.


Here's something nobody even talks about in - in plain language. And
that goes for the Dems in charge too. A big part of proposed health care
solutions from both Dem and Rep sides is gov subsidies for lower-income
folks. Subsidies to buy for-profit health insurance. And I've seen
"lower-icome" defined up to $70k for a family of 4. Without a public
non-corporate health insurance option, this is simple corporate
communism.

Of course it is. It's also the reason some for of competition has to be
put in place. Either co-ops, or a public option. It's the only way this
will work long term.

It's so darn stupid it makes me sweat behind the ears. Corporate commies
calling the backers of public-option/revenue neutral health insurance
"socialists."
There are a number of health care models around the world that give
better results than ours, and reduce costs to the national economy.
We're too darn busy throwing political stones here to see the writing on
the wall, and instead reinvent the wheel - but it's a square wheel.
That's why there is ever-increasing speculation that the dollar will
soon go away as the premier international currency. That won't hurt the
leaders of course, because they can arbitrage and make killings trading
goods produced elsewhere. Greed is good.
The facts about what works and what doesn't are well known. Everybody
who can read should have seen the stats on health care costs and health
results from out competitors by now. But the Dems and Reps have their
followers throwing eggs at each other while they all suck up corporate
money gathered up from the little folks.

Unfortunately, it isn't what will work, it is what we can get passed.
Most of the highest rated health systems, are strictly public option. I
don't see that standing a chance here.

Don't even get me started on why no H1N1 vaccine is produced in the
U.S., but it all has to be imported.
America can't even make a vaccine here. Don't think we can even make a
washing machine anymore. Change is coming all right. That's for sure.
But being the eternal optimist, I say it will all work out. As in life
is a bitch, then you die.

Well, if the dollar tanks, as expected, it will give our manufacturers a
boost. Mixed blessings, I guess.

Which isn't a bad life compared to, say....a guppie. Just kidding. I'm
enjoying life just fine. Could use some more Florida fish and sun
though.

--Vic

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 17:06:02 -0500, thunder wrote:


If you recall, Geithner was a hold-over from the Bush administration.
The reasoning was not to change horses in mid-stream.

My mistake, Geithner wasn't a hold-over. I was confusing him with
Bernanke.

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/he...nted=2&_r=1&hp


That would be the Republican's award... just say no. Wasn't that a Nancy
Reagan thing?

--
Nom=de=Plume

On 10/11/09 8:36 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"Tom Francis - wrote in
message ...
will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/he...nted=2&_r=1&hp


That would be the Republican's award... just say no. Wasn't that a Nancy
Reagan thing?



Tom, you probably don't know, was a big fan of the candidacy of...Sarah
Palin.

He has been absolutely rip**** here since the elections. It's fun to watch.

--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:48:38 -0500, thunder
wrote:

Funny, after reading that article, you find Obama the problem.

It's called sarsacm my friend - sarcasm.

He started it, made it a center piece of his administration, handed
the whole show over to Congress "organizing" instead of leading and
look what we got to show for it - same old same old only this time,
it's going to impact the Middle Class in ways we' don't even
understand yet.

Of course it's Congress's fault that the special interests get theirs
while everybody else get it tucked up the old Hershey Highway.

Obama's failed leadership on this issue should be evident even to the
most ardent left wingers.

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 05:51:21 -0700 (PDT), Jack
wrote:

On Oct 11, 5:48*am, thunder wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:08:13 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/he...y/11cost.html?

pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

Funny, after reading that article, you find Obama the problem. *After
reading that article, I find lobbyists the problem. *If we don't get them
in check, we will lose our democracy. *The incestuous relationship
between campaign finance and corporate pork, is the biggest threat to our
democracy.


Funny you should mention lobbyist:

"Here are former lobbyists Obama has tapped for top jobs:

* Eric Holder, attorney general nominee, was registered to lobby
until 2004 on behalf of clients including Global Crossing, a bankrupt
telecommunications firm [now confirmed].
* Tom Vilsack, secretary of agriculture nominee, was registered to
lobby as recently as last year on behalf of the National Education
Association.
* William Lynn, deputy defense secretary nominee, was registered
to lobby as recently as last year for defense contractor Raytheon,
where he was a top executive.
* William Corr, deputy health and human services secretary
nominee, was registered to lobby until last year for the Campaign for
Tobacco-Free Kids, a non-profit that pushes to limit tobacco use.
* David Hayes, deputy interior secretary nominee, was registered
to lobby until 2006 for clients, including the regional utility San
Diego Gas & Electric.
* Mark Patterson, chief of staff to Treasury Secretary Timothy
Geithner, was registered to lobby as recently as last year for
financial giant Goldman Sachs.
* Ron Klain, chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden, was
registered to lobby until 2005 for clients, including the Coalition
for Asbestos Resolution, U.S. Airways, Airborne Express and drug-maker
ImClone.
* Mona Sutphen, deputy White House chief of staff, was registered
to lobby for clients, including Angliss International in 2003.
* Melody Barnes, domestic policy council director, lobbied in 2003
and 2004 for liberal advocacy groups, including the American Civil
Liberties Union, the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, the
American Constitution Society and the Center for Reproductive Rights.
* Cecilia Munoz, White House director of intergovernmental
affairs, was a lobbyist as recently as last year for the National
Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group.
* Patrick Gaspard, White House political affairs director, was a
lobbyist for the Service Employees International Union.
* Michael Strautmanis, chief of staff to the president’s assistant
for intergovernmental relations, lobbied for the American Association
of Justice from 2001 until 2005."

Yeah - but they are ORGANIZED!!!

On 10/12/09 8:05 AM, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:48:38 -0500,
wrote:

Funny, after reading that article, you find Obama the problem.

It's called sarsacm my friend - sarcasm.

He started it, made it a center piece of his administration, handed
the whole show over to Congress "organizing" instead of leading and
look what we got to show for it - same old same old only this time,
it's going to impact the Middle Class in ways we' don't even
understand yet.

Of course it's Congress's fault that the special interests get theirs
while everybody else get it tucked up the old Hershey Highway.

Obama's failed leadership on this issue should be evident even to the
most ardent left wingers.


Poor Tom. There likely will not be another crappy conservative
republican mis-administration in his lifetime, and he's just not going
to get over it.


--
Birther-Deather-Tenther-Teabagger:
Idiots All

"H the K" wrote in message
...
On 10/11/09 8:36 PM, nom=de=plume wrote:
"Tom Francis - wrote in
message ...
will probably go to Barack Obama for doing nothing on health care
either.

Except make it more expensive for the middle class.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/11/he...nted=2&_r=1&hp


That would be the Republican's award... just say no. Wasn't that a Nancy
Reagan thing?



Tom, you probably don't know, was a big fan of the candidacy of...Sarah
Palin.

He has been absolutely rip**** here since the elections. It's fun to
watch.


If he's up for it, I'd really like to hear *why* Tom liked Palin so much. I
mean without the screaming about the credentials she obviously doesn't have.
What exactly about her (besides the winks and good looks) is so appealing?
She really didn't do much for Alaskans from what I've read... increased the
yearly dividend was about it.

Tom?


--
Nom=de=Plume