An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

In article b66ab558-3782-47db-ac5f-
,
says...

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

Depends on what it was made of.. A few years back a guy built a "bullet
proof" boat over at rec.boats.builders... He tested some of the panel
material with a bunch of firearms, the biggest I think was a 45, and it
did not penetrate... But that boat was somewhat over-engineered...

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat.

USCG uses 12 ga rifled slugs to disable fleeing outboards, shooting
directly at the blocks.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:51:07 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat.

USCG uses 12 ga rifled slugs to disable fleeing outboards, shooting
directly at the blocks.

A rifled slug is something different. But you'd still have to be
close because of opposing wind resistance. It would do some damage to
the engine controls, injectors, carbs - whatever sit's on it, but I
doubt the slug will go through or penetrate the block enough to stop
it. In particular if the boat is moving at a fairly good clip.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat. We
had a junk car we used to shoot at in the garbage dump/range where we
shot as a kid If you didn't hit something solid a slug would go in
one door and out the other side of the car. The seat back did a fairly
good job of stopping the slug,after going through the door, until it
came apart.

Standard powder load or load yourself?

On Oct 15, 6:09*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. *At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. *At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat. We
had a junk car we used to shoot at in the garbage dump/range where we
shot as a kid *If you didn't hit something solid a slug would go in
one door and out the other side of the car. The seat back did a fairly
good job of stopping the slug,after going through the door, until it
came apart.

Standard powder load or load yourself?

I found a website called "The box of truth " or the "Truthbox" or
something like that where they actually did tests like this by firing
into a box that had various stopping materials. At 30', the 00 shot
penetrated nearly everything. However, I am talking about 300' where
I assume the shot is going much slower.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Oct 15, 6:09*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. *At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. *At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat. We
had a junk car we used to shoot at in the garbage dump/range where we
shot as a kid *If you didn't hit something solid a slug would go in
one door and out the other side of the car. The seat back did a fairly
good job of stopping the slug,after going through the door, until it
came apart.

Standard powder load or load yourself?

I found a website called "The box of truth " or the "Truthbox" or
something like that where they actually did tests like this by firing
into a box that had various stopping materials. At 30', the 00 shot
penetrated nearly everything. However, I am talking about 300' where
I assume the shot is going much slower.

100 yards shooting say six feet off the ground you are already losing
half your height due to gravity and that increases exponentially as
the shot loses momentum.

00 might not even make 100 yards unless it's some kind of power load.

Rifled slug the same issue assuming the same weight as the 00 buckshot
- which is why I asked about standard or custom load in the shell.
With less weight, you might get an impact point, but it won't have
much penetrating power.

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I found a website called "The box of truth " or the "Truthbox" or
something like that where they actually did tests like this by firing
into a box that had various stopping materials. At 30', the 00 shot
penetrated nearly everything. However, I am talking about 300' where
I assume the shot is going much slower.

You really need a rifle to make much of an impact at 300 ft.

On Oct 15, 12:27*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:45 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports



wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Oct 15, 6:09*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. *At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. *At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat. We
had a junk car we used to shoot at in the garbage dump/range where we
shot as a kid *If you didn't hit something solid a slug would go in
one door and out the other side of the car. The seat back did a fairly
good job of stopping the slug,after going through the door, until it
came apart.

Standard powder load or load yourself?

I found a website called "The box of truth " or the "Truthbox" or
something like that where they actually did tests like this by firing
into a box that had various stopping materials. *At 30', the 00 shot
penetrated nearly everything. *However, I am talking about 300' where
I assume the shot is going much slower.

100 yards shooting say six feet off the ground you are already losing
half your height due to gravity and that increases exponentially as
the shot loses momentum.

00 might not even make 100 yards unless it's some kind of power load.

Rifled slug the same issue assuming the same weight as the 00 buckshot
- which is why I asked about standard or custom load in the shell.
With less weight, you might get an impact point, but it won't have
much penetrating power.

Fromhttp://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
Conventional Foster type rifled slugs generally weigh 1 ounce in 12
gauge, 4/5 ounce in 16 gauge, 5/8 ounce in 20 gauge, and 1/5 ounce (or
87 grains) in .410 gauge. The 12 gauge slug has an advertised muzzle
velocity (MV) of 1560 fps from a 2 3/4" high-brass shell, 1680 fps
from a 2 3/4" Magnum shell, or 1760 fps from a 3" Magnum shell. These
are Remington figures from their 2004 catalog. The MV's of the other
gauges are similar.

The catalog energy figures for the common high-brass ("maximum") 12
gauge slug load are an impressive 2361 ft. lbs. at the muzzle, but
only 926 ft. lbs. at 100 yards. This is due to the very poor BC of the
slug. Sighted to hit dead on at 50 yards, that slug is 4.8" low at 100
yards. The more powerful 12 gauge slugs are only marginally better,
and kick noticeably harder. No matter what, rifled slugs remain a
short range proposition.

He goes on to say the Brenneke slug is a lot better

These resemble Foster type slugs with one important difference: the
wad remains attached to the base of the slug. This provides a better
BC and stability in flight, a better shuttlecock, if you will. The
assembly is heavier than a plain rifled slug due to the weight of the
attached wad. The difference in retained energy at 100 yards is
considerable.

The original design of this type, as far as I know, is the German
Brenneke slug, offered by Rottweil. Brenneke rifled slugs still use
felt and fiber wads, and are suitable for use in smooth or rifled
shotgun barrels. Rottweil offers several slug loads in 12, 20, and
.410. Their 2 3/4" 12 gauge slug weighs 1 1/4 ounce, and their 3"
Magnum 20 gauge slug weighs a full 1 ounce.

A MV of 1476 fps and ME of 2538 are claimed for the 12 gauge 2 3/4"
Magnum load. More important is the 100 yard retained energy figure of
1170 ft. lbs.

Sounds like "experiment time" to me. Now, I gotta find an old boat
cut off some panels, take em in the woods and blast away.

On Oct 15, 1:31*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Oct 15, 12:27*pm, wrote:



On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:45 -0400, Tom Francis - SWSports

wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 07:10:44 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Oct 15, 6:09*am, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:32:10 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

An argument here concerning someone shooting a 12 g shotgun at a
sailboat at various distances. *At close range, no argument, 00
buckshot would go right thru the fiberglass. *At what range would it
not penetrate?
What about slugs?

I wouldn't bet against a slug going through just about any boat. We
had a junk car we used to shoot at in the garbage dump/range where we
shot as a kid *If you didn't hit something solid a slug would go in
one door and out the other side of the car. The seat back did a fairly
good job of stopping the slug,after going through the door, until it
came apart.

Standard powder load or load yourself?

I found a website called "The box of truth " or the "Truthbox" or
something like that where they actually did tests like this by firing
into a box that had various stopping materials. *At 30', the 00 shot
penetrated nearly everything. *However, I am talking about 300' where
I assume the shot is going much slower.

100 yards shooting say six feet off the ground you are already losing
half your height due to gravity and that increases exponentially as
the shot loses momentum.

00 might not even make 100 yards unless it's some kind of power load.

Rifled slug the same issue assuming the same weight as the 00 buckshot
- which is why I asked about standard or custom load in the shell.
With less weight, you might get an impact point, but it won't have
much penetrating power.

Fromhttp://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm
Conventional Foster type rifled slugs generally weigh 1 ounce in 12
gauge, 4/5 ounce in 16 gauge, 5/8 ounce in 20 gauge, and 1/5 ounce (or
87 grains) in .410 gauge. The 12 gauge slug has an advertised muzzle
velocity (MV) of 1560 fps from a 2 3/4" high-brass shell, 1680 fps
from a 2 3/4" Magnum shell, or 1760 fps from a 3" Magnum shell. These
are Remington figures from their 2004 catalog. The MV's of the other
gauges are similar.

The catalog energy figures for the common high-brass ("maximum") 12
gauge slug load are an impressive 2361 ft. lbs. at the muzzle, but
only 926 ft. lbs. at 100 yards. This is due to the very poor BC of the
slug. Sighted to hit dead on at 50 yards, that slug is 4.8" low at 100
yards. The more powerful 12 gauge slugs are only marginally better,
and kick noticeably harder. No matter what, rifled slugs remain a
short range proposition.

He goes on to say the Brenneke slug is a lot better

These resemble Foster type slugs with one important difference: the
wad remains attached to the base of the slug. This provides a better
BC and stability in flight, a better shuttlecock, if you will. The
assembly is heavier than a plain rifled slug due to the weight of the
attached wad. The difference in retained energy at 100 yards is
considerable.

The original design of this type, as far as I know, is the German
Brenneke slug, offered by Rottweil. Brenneke rifled slugs still use
felt and fiber wads, and are suitable for use in smooth or rifled
shotgun barrels. Rottweil offers several slug loads in 12, 20, and
.410. Their 2 3/4" 12 gauge slug weighs 1 1/4 ounce, and their 3"
Magnum 20 gauge slug weighs a full 1 ounce.

A MV of 1476 fps and ME of 2538 are claimed for the 12 gauge 2 3/4"
Magnum load. More important is the 100 yard retained energy figure of
1170 ft. lbs.

Sounds like "experiment time" to me. *Now, I gotta find an old boat
cut off some panels, take em in the woods and blast away.

OH, our scenario. Sailboat A shooting at Sailboat B at some long
range for a shotgun. We assume sailboat A is armed with a 12 g
shotgun with 2 3/4" shells either 000 or 00 shot alternating with
slugs, store bought loads.
Sailboat A ( a catamaran whose engine does not work) initially
shooting at stern of Sailboat B (who is unarmed, sloop rigged
monohull) at extreme range. Sailboat A speed is 6.5 kts. Sailboat B
speed is 6 kts, wind abeam of both.
Next, Sailboat B turns toward the wind to sail and motor to within 40
degrees of the wind where A cannot follow. A continues to fire until
B is out of range to windward.