On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:59:32 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:28:49 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:01:53 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:30:40 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

snipped for the salvation of bandwidth

I'm in the IT business, too. I also volunteer to help
special-needs
persons - this, without compensation, reward, or to assauge any
speculated, deep-seated feelings of guilt. I have and do assist
persons that most other people would avoid by walking on the
other
side of the street. (Do you do the same?) I'll return to a
question
I have asked of you before, which you failed to answer in any
reasonable manner. Who are you to judge another? (And I'll
wager
that I'm compensated annually less than you are. I'll also
wager
that
my income stream is less than yours.)

Good for you!!!

Weren't we talking about love and party affiliation?

Are you a compassionate conservative and did you support GW
Bush's
pre-emptive war of choice?

What percentage of the folks who "avoid" your friends do you
suppose
are Republicans? I'd expect it to be larger by at least the
weight
of
a six pack or two.

How much "love" do you have, jps? Do you volunteer your time for
the
unfortunate, the dispossessed, the disaffected, the pariah of our
society? Or do you defer to "government" to do your lovin' for
ya?
Let's see the love, dude!

Changing the subject. I'd be pleased to discuss my efforts towards
the benefits of mankind but you haven't favored me with any real
answers yet.

So why should I invest in your inquiry when you haven't invested in
mine?

This is how it normally goes with you.

I think a review of who first toke the path less relevant would
yeild
a contrary result. What is apparent to the sensible reader is that
your declarations are far removed from reality, are not
representative
of the truth, and that by design. You are a propagandist and you
are
a minor one at that. You're traipsing around with your basket of
radical blubs in remote newsgroups, far from the big-lights that the
more notorious radicals, such as Michael Moore, enjoy.

I'm sure your family understands you.

"toke the path"? I was bleary-eyed last night. I would recommend
that you avoid reading C.S. Lewis' "The Abolition of Man" if you have
problems comprehending what I write. Then again, I suspect that if
you or HK were able to comprehend "The Abolition of Man," any acerbic
and witty rebuttal that either of you issued against it would fall as
short as all of your other lackluster "blurbs."


I don't recall reading this CS Lewis book, but I really enjoyed the
space
trilogy, and I most enjoyed (and remember) Out of the Silent Planet
(apologies to Harry... it's just a coincidence).

EM

It's more of a philosophical work, em. I haven't read much of C.S.
Lewis fiction (one Narnia novel and "The Screwtape Letters," an
epistolary). I've read more of his religious and philosophical works,
the most difficult to negotiate being "The Abolition of Man," and the
most poignant being, imo, "The Problem of Pain." The man was an
estimable apologist. And I may be being a bit brutal in this opinion;
but, I doubt that either JPS or H the K possess the prowess or acumen
to fully absorb it, considering their respectively unremarkable
intellectual demonstrations in this NG. That's why the most you'll
see from either in a criticism of his work is a "pithy" blurb.

I had wanted to add, too, Em, that "The Problem of Pain" is a bit of
an exercise in theodicy. It's worth a read, even for those that don't
subscribe to any faith in particular.


Sometimes, I don't mind a pithy response.

Actually, I don't either . It's just that some comments feign
'pith' when there is little there to show for it.

I can understand God's goodness in the face of many things (all things I
suppose), but I don't subscribe to the notion of evil (this puts me at
odds
with lots of religious people of course). I guess I've struggled with this
for a long while, but I've concluded that there doesn't have to be the
duality of good and evil for good to exist. Bad certainly exists, but I
don't believe in evil. Even bad people can be do good in select
circumstances. Certainly, the reverse is true.

At least you've invested some thought in the issue. That's more than
many others do. I think that when the discussion comes up, the terms
need to be clearly defined. It can be asserted that 'good' has no
meaning if there isn't 'evil.' The one is defined in some part by the
other. I wish I had finished G. E. Moore's "Principia Ethica." I had
started it last winter, and I put it down in the middle of his
defining "good." Maybe I'll be able to finish it when I retire, if I
ever get that far :)


That's certainly one way to look at it, but if you believe that God can only
be good (to the the tune of Johnny Be Good of course), is all powerful, and
all knowing, then how can evil really exist? Not to be too heavy about it,
but it's more on par with Plato than Aristotle, the latter of which bores
me, so I tend to dislike and discount his arguments.

So, if I make a logical argument, but I mis-spell a word, the logical
argument is "good," but does that make the mis-spelling evil? I claim it's
bad but not evil. Maybe that's a stretch.

I had a rum and coke for dinner, Em; so, I'm really in too light of a
mood to tackle this heavy stuff this evening. Maybe, I'll try to
wade my way through your thoughts tomorrow. Until then, I defer to
C.S. Lewis in his "The Problem of Pain," when he states that "pain is
God's megaphone to a deaf world." (Or something very similar to
that.) Too, I think it safe to say that the argument can go to an
examination of free will and to the consideration that God endowed us
with such. That being the case, if any one free will agent (you or I)
stood inimically to God, as a matter of choice, the one who does can
be said to be 'evil.' That's only one avenue of thought, though. (And
I went farther than I intended.)

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On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:55:53 -0400, H the K
wrote:

On 10/26/09 9:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:09:30 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:44:39 -0500, wrote:



At least you've invested some thought in the issue. That's more than
many others do. I think that when the discussion comes up, the terms
need to be clearly defined. It can be asserted that 'good' has no
meaning if there isn't 'evil.' The one is defined in some part by the
other. I wish I had finished G. E. Moore's "Principia Ethica." I had
started it last winter, and I put it down in the middle of his
defining "good." Maybe I'll be able to finish it when I retire, if I
ever get that far :)

I'll save you the trouble.
"Good" is BBQ baby back ribs.

--Vic

Nah, that's not good. Good is Tafërtingen Dunkel beer, Jagermiester
schnapps, roast chicken, and bratwurst at the Augsburg October fest.
Now that's the epitome of "good." Of course a Saturday evening at the
Hofbräuhaus in Munich comes close.



Too...German.

I'll do German before I'll do Taco Bell. (Come to think of it, I'd do
White Castle before I'd do Taco Bell.)

--
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On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:50:03 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:09:30 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:44:39 -0500, wrote:



At least you've invested some thought in the issue. That's more than
many others do. I think that when the discussion comes up, the terms
need to be clearly defined. It can be asserted that 'good' has no
meaning if there isn't 'evil.' The one is defined in some part by the
other. I wish I had finished G. E. Moore's "Principia Ethica." I had
started it last winter, and I put it down in the middle of his
defining "good." Maybe I'll be able to finish it when I retire, if I
ever get that far :)

I'll save you the trouble.
"Good" is BBQ baby back ribs.

--Vic

Nah, that's not good. Good is Tafërtingen Dunkel beer, Jagermiester
schnapps, roast chicken, and bratwurst at the Augsburg October fest.
Now that's the epitome of "good." Of course a Saturday evening at the
Hofbräuhaus in Munich comes close.

Jagermiester? Have you graduated from college yet?

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:07:22 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:59:32 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:28:49 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 13:01:53 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:30:40 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

snipped for the salvation of bandwidth

I'm in the IT business, too. I also volunteer to help
special-needs
persons - this, without compensation, reward, or to assauge any
speculated, deep-seated feelings of guilt. I have and do assist
persons that most other people would avoid by walking on the
other
side of the street. (Do you do the same?) I'll return to a
question
I have asked of you before, which you failed to answer in any
reasonable manner. Who are you to judge another? (And I'll
wager
that I'm compensated annually less than you are. I'll also
wager
that
my income stream is less than yours.)

Good for you!!!

Weren't we talking about love and party affiliation?

Are you a compassionate conservative and did you support GW
Bush's
pre-emptive war of choice?

What percentage of the folks who "avoid" your friends do you
suppose
are Republicans? I'd expect it to be larger by at least the
weight
of
a six pack or two.

How much "love" do you have, jps? Do you volunteer your time for
the
unfortunate, the dispossessed, the disaffected, the pariah of our
society? Or do you defer to "government" to do your lovin' for
ya?
Let's see the love, dude!

Changing the subject. I'd be pleased to discuss my efforts towards
the benefits of mankind but you haven't favored me with any real
answers yet.

So why should I invest in your inquiry when you haven't invested in
mine?

This is how it normally goes with you.

I think a review of who first toke the path less relevant would
yeild
a contrary result. What is apparent to the sensible reader is that
your declarations are far removed from reality, are not
representative
of the truth, and that by design. You are a propagandist and you
are
a minor one at that. You're traipsing around with your basket of
radical blubs in remote newsgroups, far from the big-lights that the
more notorious radicals, such as Michael Moore, enjoy.

I'm sure your family understands you.

"toke the path"? I was bleary-eyed last night. I would recommend
that you avoid reading C.S. Lewis' "The Abolition of Man" if you have
problems comprehending what I write. Then again, I suspect that if
you or HK were able to comprehend "The Abolition of Man," any acerbic
and witty rebuttal that either of you issued against it would fall as
short as all of your other lackluster "blurbs."


I don't recall reading this CS Lewis book, but I really enjoyed the
space
trilogy, and I most enjoyed (and remember) Out of the Silent Planet
(apologies to Harry... it's just a coincidence).

EM

It's more of a philosophical work, em. I haven't read much of C.S.
Lewis fiction (one Narnia novel and "The Screwtape Letters," an
epistolary). I've read more of his religious and philosophical works,
the most difficult to negotiate being "The Abolition of Man," and the
most poignant being, imo, "The Problem of Pain." The man was an
estimable apologist. And I may be being a bit brutal in this opinion;
but, I doubt that either JPS or H the K possess the prowess or acumen
to fully absorb it, considering their respectively unremarkable
intellectual demonstrations in this NG. That's why the most you'll
see from either in a criticism of his work is a "pithy" blurb.

I had wanted to add, too, Em, that "The Problem of Pain" is a bit of
an exercise in theodicy. It's worth a read, even for those that don't
subscribe to any faith in particular.


Sometimes, I don't mind a pithy response.

Actually, I don't either . It's just that some comments feign
'pith' when there is little there to show for it.

I can understand God's goodness in the face of many things (all things I
suppose), but I don't subscribe to the notion of evil (this puts me at
odds
with lots of religious people of course). I guess I've struggled with this
for a long while, but I've concluded that there doesn't have to be the
duality of good and evil for good to exist. Bad certainly exists, but I
don't believe in evil. Even bad people can be do good in select
circumstances. Certainly, the reverse is true.

At least you've invested some thought in the issue. That's more than
many others do. I think that when the discussion comes up, the terms
need to be clearly defined. It can be asserted that 'good' has no
meaning if there isn't 'evil.' The one is defined in some part by the
other. I wish I had finished G. E. Moore's "Principia Ethica." I had
started it last winter, and I put it down in the middle of his
defining "good." Maybe I'll be able to finish it when I retire, if I
ever get that far :)


That's certainly one way to look at it, but if you believe that God can only
be good (to the the tune of Johnny Be Good of course), is all powerful, and
all knowing, then how can evil really exist? Not to be too heavy about it,
but it's more on par with Plato than Aristotle, the latter of which bores
me, so I tend to dislike and discount his arguments.

So, if I make a logical argument, but I mis-spell a word, the logical
argument is "good," but does that make the mis-spelling evil? I claim it's
bad but not evil. Maybe that's a stretch.

I had a rum and coke for dinner, Em; so, I'm really in too light of a
mood to tackle this heavy stuff this evening. Maybe, I'll try to
wade my way through your thoughts tomorrow. Until then, I defer to
C.S. Lewis in his "The Problem of Pain," when he states that "pain is
God's megaphone to a deaf world." (Or something very similar to
that.) Too, I think it safe to say that the argument can go to an
examination of free will and to the consideration that God endowed us
with such. That being the case, if any one free will agent (you or I)
stood inimically to God, as a matter of choice, the one who does can
be said to be 'evil.' That's only one avenue of thought, though. (And
I went farther than I intended.)

Is that what you say to dinner guests when you're halfway through a
bottle of wine and a weighty subject is introduced to the
conversation? You abdicate? Retire? Watch TV?

Did you ask Hoss if he could help pry that stick out?

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:50:03 -0500, wrote:



I'll save you the trouble.
"Good" is BBQ baby back ribs.

--Vic

Nah, that's not good. Good is Tafërtingen Dunkel beer, Jagermiester
schnapps, roast chicken, and bratwurst at the Augsburg October fest.
Now that's the epitome of "good." Of course a Saturday evening at the
Hofbräuhaus in Munich comes close.

Can't argue with that. Used to frequent Resi's Bier Stube on Irving
in Chicago before it got all yuppified.
Think the owner was U-boat crew.
Know he'd pour me a Jagermeister now and then to follow a beer.
Good stuff, and it fits in coffee well too.
A buddy in college always carried a flask of it.
My preference was Hacker Pschorr Weiss, and I still lean towards that.
But I never did an October fest so I'm open to more trial.
Kiel and Hamburg is the limit of my experience in Germany.
Beer was warm, but I did enjoy the food and trains.

--Vic

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:50:03 -0500, wrote:



I'll save you the trouble.
"Good" is BBQ baby back ribs.

--Vic

Nah, that's not good. Good is Tafërtingen Dunkel beer, Jagermiester
schnapps, roast chicken, and bratwurst at the Augsburg October fest.
Now that's the epitome of "good." Of course a Saturday evening at the
Hofbräuhaus in Munich comes close.

Can't argue with that. Used to frequent Resi's Bier Stube on Irving
in Chicago before it got all yuppified.
Think the owner was U-boat crew.
Know he'd pour me a Jagermeister now and then to follow a beer.
Good stuff, and it fits in coffee well too.
A buddy in college always carried a flask of it.
My preference was Hacker Pschorr Weiss, and I still lean towards that.
But I never did an October fest so I'm open to more trial.
Kiel and Hamburg is the limit of my experience in Germany.
Beer was warm, but I did enjoy the food and trains.

--Vic






Still can't buy anything like you can make at home... As to beer that
is.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:19:30 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:50:03 -0500, wrote:



I'll save you the trouble.
"Good" is BBQ baby back ribs.

--Vic

Nah, that's not good. Good is Tafërtingen Dunkel beer, Jagermiester
schnapps, roast chicken, and bratwurst at the Augsburg October fest.
Now that's the epitome of "good." Of course a Saturday evening at the
Hofbräuhaus in Munich comes close.

Can't argue with that. Used to frequent Resi's Bier Stube on Irving
in Chicago before it got all yuppified.
Think the owner was U-boat crew.
Know he'd pour me a Jagermeister now and then to follow a beer.
Good stuff, and it fits in coffee well too.
A buddy in college always carried a flask of it.
My preference was Hacker Pschorr Weiss, and I still lean towards that.
But I never did an October fest so I'm open to more trial.
Kiel and Hamburg is the limit of my experience in Germany.
Beer was warm, but I did enjoy the food and trains.

--Vic

One of the reasons I liked the Octoberfest over the other 'fests
throughout the year was that the beer would chill in the evening that
time of the year. The chilled dark beer was robust and went really
well with the brats. The schnapps ladies would make their rounds with
buckets of iced schnapps carried by straps around the neck and
shoulders. The order was usually for one shot and it was chased with
the beer. I wasn't ready for German schnapps when I first arrived in
Augsburg, and needless to say, it took me about 36 hours to recover.
:)

--
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On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 22:23:35 -0400, Tosk
wrote:



Still can't buy anything like you can make at home... As to beer that
is.

Still got all the beer-making advice I got from you and Loogy.
Wait.
Decided on this one.

Honey Weizen w/ Danstar Munich dry yeast
Price: $28.95
Availability: Usually ships in 24-48 hours
Catalog Nbr: 730
Ship Weight: 12
Qty:

Would pick it up as the place is about a 30-40 minute drive.
Figured all the gear would run about $150.
Got that all listed too.
Still might do it.
But for now I'm going to the fridge and see what's there.
Glad I got reminded to have a beer.
It's good for you.

--Vic

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:32:51 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


Glad I got reminded to have a beer.
It's good for you.

--Vic


This really is a health care issue, though. You have to nurse it. :)

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On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:40:21 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:32:51 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:


Glad I got reminded to have a beer.
It's good for you.

--Vic


This really is a health care issue, though. You have to nurse it. :)

Nursing this is what the doc ordered.
A Czech dark lager - Bakalar.
Left off the marks on the a and r.
Don't know Czech.
Don't care for it, but my wife wanted a taste, and liked it.
She doesn't drink beer.
But she shops at an ethnic grocery and picks up various east European
and Russian beers to keep in the fridge for me.
Its hit and miss. The Polish are the best bets.
Only have one when I get reminded I haven't had one for a week or so.

--Vic