On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:52:37 -0600, Vic Smith wrote:

Took one of the 23000 BTU heaters out to the garage last night and fired
it up. Burned clean and hot. It was 18 F. Good to warm your hands
only.
If you're 18" away from it you feel nothing except 18 F. Problem is the
heat goes straight up from the heater top and past the rafters and out
the roof vent.
Tomorrow I'm going to climb up on the rafters and block the roof vent.
We'll fire up both the kerosene heaters and do the alternator and water
pump on the Grand Am. See if the garage warms up a bit. Supposed to be
about 30 F tomorrow.
I'll bring a thermometer out there to see what's really happening. Just
having that flame burning and putting your hands over it make you feel
warmer, but I don't think it did a damn thing to warm up the garage.
Have to measure that.
Garage isn't real drafty, but there's no insulation. These heaters might
provide only hand-warming and psychological comfort only out there.
We'll see.
Anyway, I want them for the house in case of a power outage, so they
still have that value regardless of what they do in the garage.

--Vic

You could put a tarp or polyethylene sheeting across the rafters to
shrink the size of the garage.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:50:28 -0600, thunder
wrote:


You could put a tarp or polyethylene sheeting across the rafters to
shrink the size of the garage.

Think we'll go that way. Not too practical to cover all the joists (I
said rafters by mistake), as the garage is about 21' x 22' and one end
would have to attach to the overhead door. Got a feeling the heater
still wouldn't do much. But you got me thinking. An 8'x8' work area
could easily be covered. Better yet 12'x12'.
Joists are 8' from the ground.
There's a 30' x 30' tarp here for 45 bucks.
http://www.tarpsplus.com/noname.html

Let's say I mark out the center 12' x 12' of it.
Still have 9' left on all sides.
Put attachment rings on that outline, spaced for the joists.
Put screw hooks in the joist bottoms to loop the rings on.
Hang it up.
All sides drop down 9', hitting the floor.
One side will drape over the car by the windshield or by whatever end
I'm working on. Front in, or backed in, depending.
End up with nice heat entrapping box, car end nosed under it.
Slice a corner of the tarp 6' up for access and safety ventilation.
The extra foot should take care of corner wrinkles that might keep it
from hitting the floor. Could rig the hooks lower too, maybe 7' from
ground. Hooks on straps wrapped on the joists instead of screwing
them in. Mark the places when I get it right. Put it all away when
not used. But the stiff stationary hooks might better keep it all
square, so I'm tending that way. Besides, I have a couple 4'x8'
plywood sheets up there to store stuff, nailed down, and they'll get
in the way of wrapping straps.
Bet just one heater would warm it up nice. Might even have to turn
the heater down.
Put a small box fan in there too, on low to move the air around and
keep the tarp ceiling from getting too hot.
Couple stools to sit on. A small table to hold parts and tools.
Maybe a cooler with beer. Chips and dip. Some girly mags.
Or maybe some Boater mags and Nat Geos instead. A TV?
With 12'x12' might get a cot in there. Hell, that's almost as big as
my bedroom.
This could work real good if I get in a fight with my wife when it's
cold out.
Thanks guys. You put me on the right path.
Found these when I looked for tarp attachers to hang it up.
http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/assembly.html
Look like they could be useful for boaters playing with tarps too.
I'll get 8 of the general purpose for hanging the tarp.
But I'll wait a bit before I order the tarp and attachers, in case
somebody points out a hole in my plan.

--Vic

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:


Sounds like you are making this really hard..... why not put a ceiling
in with something like 1/4 OSB (can you still get that?) and 1/4 X 2
battens, then blow in a little insulation.....

I'd lose the storage on the joist platforms, which I want.
If I had my way I'd have the garage torn down and a 24'x26' put up,
new slab and wired 240 wired in, etc.
Then I'd have room for storing gear. As it is, I even drag the
lawnmower up there in the winter so we can put 2 cars in the garage.
Wife wants a kitchen first, and I agree, so a new garage ain't gonna
happen. Paid $6k to get my 24x26 "custom" put up 30 years ago.
That's probably about $25k now, though I haven't priced it.
Afraid to. Might get in the way of using the money for a boat.
Besides, I only work on the car in the winter occasionally, so it's
not a big deal.
And I'm not sure just doing the ceiling would be enough anyway.
Then I'd want to batt and drywall the walls, and on and on.
With the cracked slab and "inadequate to me" size I just don't want to
put money in this garage, except to keep it what it is.
Will put a new overhead door in soon, as that's coming due. and maybe
I'll price a new garage then. But I know I can the door done for
$1800, so that will probably do it.
Hey, the tarp tent setup is about 65 bucks and if it works it'll be
real easy to hang/put away when used.
Besides, it's elegant. Yes, elegant I say.

--Vic

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:12 -0500, Gene
wrote:


Sounds like you are making this really hard..... why not put a ceiling
in with something like 1/4 OSB (can you still get that?) and 1/4 X 2
battens, then blow in a little insulation.....

I'd lose the storage on the joist platforms, which I want.
If I had my way I'd have the garage torn down and a 24'x26' put up,
new slab and wired 240 wired in, etc.
Then I'd have room for storing gear. As it is, I even drag the
lawnmower up there in the winter so we can put 2 cars in the garage.
Wife wants a kitchen first, and I agree, so a new garage ain't gonna
happen. Paid $6k to get my 24x26 "custom" put up 30 years ago.
That's probably about $25k now, though I haven't priced it.
Afraid to. Might get in the way of using the money for a boat.
Besides, I only work on the car in the winter occasionally, so it's
not a big deal.
And I'm not sure just doing the ceiling would be enough anyway.
Then I'd want to batt and drywall the walls, and on and on.
With the cracked slab and "inadequate to me" size I just don't want to
put money in this garage, except to keep it what it is.
Will put a new overhead door in soon, as that's coming due. and maybe
I'll price a new garage then. But I know I can the door done for
$1800, so that will probably do it.
Hey, the tarp tent setup is about 65 bucks and if it works it'll be
real easy to hang/put away when used.
Besides, it's elegant. Yes, elegant I say.

--Vic

A small electric heater works very well if you're working mostly in
one spot in the garage.
--

John H

On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

Besides, it's elegant. Yes, elegant I say.

Redneck I'd say - yes, redneck... :)

On Dec 13, 2:30*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:30:12 -0500, Gene

wrote:

Sounds like you are making this really hard..... why not put a ceiling
in with something like 1/4 OSB (can you still get that?) and 1/4 X 2
battens, then blow in a little insulation.....

I'd lose the storage on the joist platforms, which I want.
If I had my way I'd have the garage torn down and a 24'x26' put up,
new slab and wired 240 wired in, etc.
Then I'd have room for storing gear. *As it is, I even drag the
lawnmower up there in the winter so we can put 2 cars in the garage.
Wife wants a kitchen first, and I agree, so a new garage ain't gonna
happen. *Paid $6k to get my 24x26 "custom" put up 30 years ago.
That's probably about $25k now, though I haven't priced it.
Afraid to. *Might get in the way of using the money for a boat.
Besides, I only work on the car in the winter occasionally, so it's
not a big deal.
And I'm not sure just doing the ceiling would be enough anyway.
Then I'd want to batt and drywall the walls, and on and on.
With the cracked slab and "inadequate to me" size I just don't want to
put money in this garage, except to keep it what it is.
Will put a new overhead door in soon, as that's coming due. and maybe
I'll price a new garage then. *But I know I can the door done for
$1800, so that will probably do it.
Hey, the tarp tent setup is about 65 bucks and if it works it'll be
real easy to hang/put away when used.
Besides, it's elegant. *Yes, elegant I say.

--Vic

You can get a pre-engineered metal building about that size with slab,
for about 8k.

Gene wrote:
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 11:33:52 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:50:28 -0600, thunder
wrote:

You could put a tarp or polyethylene sheeting across the rafters to
shrink the size of the garage.
Think we'll go that way. Not too practical to cover all the joists (I
said rafters by mistake), as the garage is about 21' x 22' and one end
would have to attach to the overhead door. Got a feeling the heater
still wouldn't do much. But you got me thinking. An 8'x8' work area
could easily be covered. Better yet 12'x12'.
Joists are 8' from the ground.
There's a 30' x 30' tarp here for 45 bucks.
http://www.tarpsplus.com/noname.html

Let's say I mark out the center 12' x 12' of it.
Still have 9' left on all sides.
Put attachment rings on that outline, spaced for the joists.
Put screw hooks in the joist bottoms to loop the rings on.
Hang it up.
All sides drop down 9', hitting the floor.
One side will drape over the car by the windshield or by whatever end
I'm working on. Front in, or backed in, depending.
End up with nice heat entrapping box, car end nosed under it.
Slice a corner of the tarp 6' up for access and safety ventilation.
The extra foot should take care of corner wrinkles that might keep it
from hitting the floor. Could rig the hooks lower too, maybe 7' from
ground. Hooks on straps wrapped on the joists instead of screwing
them in. Mark the places when I get it right. Put it all away when
not used. But the stiff stationary hooks might better keep it all
square, so I'm tending that way. Besides, I have a couple 4'x8'
plywood sheets up there to store stuff, nailed down, and they'll get
in the way of wrapping straps.
Bet just one heater would warm it up nice. Might even have to turn
the heater down.
Put a small box fan in there too, on low to move the air around and
keep the tarp ceiling from getting too hot.
Couple stools to sit on. A small table to hold parts and tools.
Maybe a cooler with beer. Chips and dip. Some girly mags.
Or maybe some Boater mags and Nat Geos instead. A TV?
With 12'x12' might get a cot in there. Hell, that's almost as big as
my bedroom.
This could work real good if I get in a fight with my wife when it's
cold out.
Thanks guys. You put me on the right path.
Found these when I looked for tarp attachers to hang it up.
http://shelter-systems.com/gripclips/assembly.html
Look like they could be useful for boaters playing with tarps too.
I'll get 8 of the general purpose for hanging the tarp.
But I'll wait a bit before I order the tarp and attachers, in case
somebody points out a hole in my plan.

--Vic

Sounds like you are making this really hard..... why not put a ceiling
in with something like 1/4 OSB (can you still get that?) and 1/4 X 2
battens, then blow in a little insulation.....
Doesn't osb get a little soft in humidity?
I had a carpenter repair my roof a good while ago. I had a new roof put
on two years ago. They showed me the osb they had to replace. It didn't
get wet from rain but the stuff was not much more than mush in many places.
I cost considerable moe but us produced treated plywood. The new kind. I
don't know the name but it is not as poisonous as the green stuff. It is
dry not wet when you get and won't warp.
They used it for elevated flooring, 1 inch, in my shed. a few years ago.
It handles the lawn tractor etc real nice.
You won't need 1 inch though.