Harry wrote:
On 12/20/09 10:43 AM, D.Duck wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...


Huh - how about that...

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...-cbo-estimate/



http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...l-require-hom/



http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...earth-cooling/



http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...en-treaty-thr/



And here's a good one about the right's idea that more CO2 is actually
good for the environment:

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...-not-pollutan/



The gist of Tom's post was the "cap and trade" fraud in Europe and the
potential for the same here in the US. Do you disagree with that premise?


Tom has devolved into a political pseudo-scientist who goes shopping for
crap he thinks proves his points.


As if he's the only one here who does that.

Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:43 am, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...
Huh - how about that...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/chain-emai...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../23/chain-emai...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/mary-matal...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../20/christophe...
And here's a good one about the right's idea that more CO2 is actually
good for the environment:
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../07/plantsneed...
The gist of Tom's post was the "cap and trade" fraud in Europe and the
potential for the same here in the US. Do you disagree with that premise?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, because as far as a know, people just aren't very good at
correctly and precisely predicting the future. Also, who told this
nitwit Schulz that our system will be like Europes?

As proposed the trading will be handled with the likes of Merril Lynch.
Were you happy with the way these folks handled like transactions in
the past?

"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:11 am, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article 8ab39275-4f53-4342-be57-97ae507a3f19
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...







On Dec 20, 8:32 am, Jack wrote:
On Dec 20, 8:16 am, Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz
said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...
Huh - how about that...
It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too.
So instead of attacking the messenger, which is your side's MO, how
about addressing the quotation. Specifically, what part of it isn't
true, and why?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Easy! First, if you read the whole article, not just the cherry picked
parts, you'll see that they are discussing Europe's cap and trade
problems saying that we will have the same problems. This without even
knowing how we are going to model our system. Pretty audacious if the
right wing thinks that their side can predict the future.
If you look at the Czars and others President Obama has put in charge of
such policy, you can get a pretty good idea, it's not rocket science...-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What in HELL does that have to do with the right acting like they have
the ability to predict the future? They've done it before too. Look at
healthcare. For some stupid reason, they think it will be like the
UK's plan. They'll bring up the failed systems and say, "see, that's
what it will be like for us". You NEVER see them point to a well
though out system that works very well and say "see, that's what it
will be like for us"......
Why? PURE politics. They would rather play politics than do what's
right for the country.


Will "it" work as "well" as Medicare? 8)


I'm sure you're first in line to voluntarily give it up. And, if not you,
I'm sure you'll be happy to volunteer your family members to do that.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:16:44 -0800 (PST), Loogypicker
wrote:

On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...

Huh - how about that...

It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too.

I have come to know you on a personal level over the past few months -
you're a good guy - a little weird, but then again, most of us are on
some way.

But this kind of reply bothers me. "Cherry pick"? It's not "cherry"
picking at all - it's a fact. Fraud is rampant - something that I've
been pointing out for years. This isn't "cherry" picking - it's
governments actively creating a market that is basically unregulated
and uncontrollable and, frankly, unsupported unless you count
government money backing the concept.

Wake up man - this is all about economic control and the ones who play
along get to play. It's the Robber Baron economy all over again.


No, fraud is not "rampant." Fraud exists in most programs.


--
Nom=de=Plume

On Dec 20, 1:47*pm, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:43 am, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said..
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re....
Huh - how about that...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/chain-emai....
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../23/chain-emai....
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/mary-matal....
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../20/christophe....
And here's a good one about the right's idea that more CO2 is actually
good for the environment:
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../07/plantsneed....
The gist of Tom's post was the "cap and trade" fraud in Europe and the
potential for the same here in the US. Do you disagree with that premise?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, because as far as a know, people just aren't very good at
correctly and precisely predicting the future. Also, who told this
nitwit Schulz that our system will be like Europes?

As proposed the trading will be handled with the likes of Merril Lynch.
* Were you happy with the way these folks handled like transactions in
the past?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What "like" transactions would that be?

On Dec 20, 1:40*pm, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:11 am, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article 8ab39275-4f53-4342-be57-97ae507a3f19
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 20, 8:32 am, Jack wrote:
On Dec 20, 8:16 am, Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...
Huh - how about that...
It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too.
So instead of attacking the messenger, which is your side's MO, how
about addressing the quotation. *Specifically, what part of it isn't
true, and why?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Easy! First, if you read the whole article, not just the cherry picked
parts, you'll see that they are discussing Europe's cap and trade
problems saying that we will have the same problems. This without even
knowing how we are going to model our system. Pretty audacious if the
right wing thinks that their side can predict the future.
If you look at the Czars and others President Obama has put in charge of
such policy, you can get a pretty good idea, it's not rocket science....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What in HELL does that have to do with the right acting like they have
the ability to predict the future? They've done it before too. Look at
healthcare. For some stupid reason, they think it will be like the
UK's plan. They'll bring up the failed systems and say, "see, that's
what it will be like for us". You NEVER see them point to a well
though out system that works very well and say "see, that's what it
will be like for us"......
Why? PURE politics. They would rather play politics than do what's
right for the country.

Will "it" work as "well" as Medicare? *8)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, apparently the right wing can predict the future, so they'll
know the answer to that.

nom=de=plume wrote:
"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 11:11 am, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article 8ab39275-4f53-4342-be57-97ae507a3f19
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...







On Dec 20, 8:32 am, Jack wrote:
On Dec 20, 8:16 am, Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz
said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...
Huh - how about that...
It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too.
So instead of attacking the messenger, which is your side's MO, how
about addressing the quotation. Specifically, what part of it isn't
true, and why?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Easy! First, if you read the whole article, not just the cherry picked
parts, you'll see that they are discussing Europe's cap and trade
problems saying that we will have the same problems. This without even
knowing how we are going to model our system. Pretty audacious if the
right wing thinks that their side can predict the future.
If you look at the Czars and others President Obama has put in charge of
such policy, you can get a pretty good idea, it's not rocket science...-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
What in HELL does that have to do with the right acting like they have
the ability to predict the future? They've done it before too. Look at
healthcare. For some stupid reason, they think it will be like the
UK's plan. They'll bring up the failed systems and say, "see, that's
what it will be like for us". You NEVER see them point to a well
though out system that works very well and say "see, that's what it
will be like for us"......
Why? PURE politics. They would rather play politics than do what's
right for the country.

Will "it" work as "well" as Medicare? 8)


I'm sure you're first in line to voluntarily give it up. And, if not you,
I'm sure you'll be happy to volunteer your family members to do that.



My point is the amount of fraud brought to Medicare. The Government
cannot seem to control it. Will they be able to control the inevitable
fraud that will be associated with "cap and trade"?

On Dec 20, 1:24*pm, I am Tosk wrote:
In article 8bfc5ae5-ce97-4687-8830-
, says...







On Dec 20, 12:41*pm, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article 339e705b-aa2c-45b0-8dfb-
,
says...

On Dec 20, 11:11*am, I am Tosk
wrote:
In article 8ab39275-4f53-4342-be57-97ae507a3f19
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com, says...

On Dec 20, 8:32*am, Jack wrote:
On Dec 20, 8:16*am, Loogypicker wrote:

On Dec 19, 9:44*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports

wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...

Huh - how about that...

It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too..

So instead of attacking the messenger, which is your side's MO, how
about addressing the quotation. *Specifically, what part of it isn't
true, and why?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Easy! First, if you read the whole article, not just the cherry picked
parts, you'll see that they are discussing Europe's cap and trade
problems saying that we will have the same problems. This without even
knowing how we are going to model our system. Pretty audacious if the
right wing thinks that their side can predict the future.

If you look at the Czars and others President Obama has put in charge of
such policy, you can get a pretty good idea, it's not rocket science...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What in HELL does that have to do with the right acting like they have
the ability to predict the future? They've done it before too. Look at
healthcare. For some stupid reason, they think it will be like the
UK's plan. They'll bring up the failed systems and say, "see, that's
what it will be like for us". You NEVER see them point to a well
though out system that works very well and say "see, that's what it
will be like for us"......
Why? PURE politics. They would rather play politics than do what's
right for the country.

Show me where you didn't say you would rather play politics than do
what's right for the country?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That makes absolutely NO sense.

Now you are catching on...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Show me a question I asked that didn't make sense. If you are talking
about Bill's apartment falling into the ocean post, you aren't
comprehending well. HE said it had nothing to do with global warming.
Therefore, he must have some evidence of that, or why would he state
such?

On Dec 20, 1:17*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:16:44 -0800 (PST), Loogypicker





wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44*pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re....

Huh - how about that...

It's amazing how your side can cherry pick people's thoughts and
present just that as fact and expect everyone to eat it up. I know
that many on the right will, afterall, they'll take some lie that
Hannity or Rush tells them and run with it as the truth too.

I have come to know you on a personal level over the past few months -
you're a good guy - a little weird, but then again, most of us are on
some way.

Weird? I consider that a compliment, thanks!

But this kind of reply bothers me. *"Cherry pick"? *It's not "cherry"
picking at all - it's a fact. *Fraud is rampant - something that I've
been pointing out for years. *This isn't "cherry" picking - it's
governments actively creating a market that is basically unregulated
and uncontrollable and, frankly, unsupported unless you count
government money backing the concept.

Wake up man - this is all about economic control and the ones who play
along get to play. *It's the Robber Baron economy all over again.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There's fraud to a certain degree in everything political.

Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 1:47 pm, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 20, 10:43 am, "D.Duck" wrote:
Loogypicker wrote:
On Dec 19, 9:44 pm, Tom Francis - SWSports
wrote:
"This is the problem with politicians trying to create a market for
something that the free market otherwise doesn't value," Schulz said.
"An emissions trading market is an artificially, politically-created
market...."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...s-cap-trade-re...
Huh - how about that...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/chain-emai...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../23/chain-emai...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../27/mary-matal...
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../20/christophe...
And here's a good one about the right's idea that more CO2 is actually
good for the environment:
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/.../07/plantsneed...
The gist of Tom's post was the "cap and trade" fraud in Europe and the
potential for the same here in the US. Do you disagree with that premise?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Yes, because as far as a know, people just aren't very good at
correctly and precisely predicting the future. Also, who told this
nitwit Schulz that our system will be like Europes?
As proposed the trading will be handled with the likes of Merril Lynch.
Were you happy with the way these folks handled like transactions in
the past?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What "like" transactions would that be?


"like" = financial derivatives, e.g. CDS