First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put it
on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water vents
and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its side. This
last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and fired it up.
Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod which
goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider by
hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with only
a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables. I
don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was shifting
fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark

The gear shift axle is known to rust. Remove the gear, and check if the
shifting works directly on the gear. If it does, your shift axle is the
culprit.


"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
7...
First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put it
on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water vents
and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its side. This
last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and fired it up.
Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod which
goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider by
hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with only
a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables. I
don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was shifting
fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark

I assume that what you are talking about is the shift shaft, to which I
pointed out as the rod that went down to the lower unit before. I've
read elsewhere that this rod is supposed to go down in forwared and go
up in neutral and reverse. I'm not seeing the rod go up and down, just
clockwise and counterclockwise. I don't see any rust at all on the rod.
It appears to be an aluminum rod. Maybe you're talking about a different
part that I don't know about. Anyways, is there something that would
prevent the shift shaft from going up and down?


"Trond Solem" wrote in
k:

The gear shift axle is known to rust. Remove the gear, and check if
the shifting works directly on the gear. If it does, your shift axle
is the culprit.


"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
7...
First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put
it on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water
vents and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its
side. This last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and
fired it up. Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in
forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod
which goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider
by hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with
only a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables.
I don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was
shifting fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark

The rod *rotates*. Any up/down movement is incidental to it's function.

You should feel definate "snicks" when moving the lever up in the cowl by
hand. If you don't, then your problem is prolly down in the lower unit.

The shift *rod** goes down through the leg and mates to the shift *shaft* in
the lower unit.

Assuming everyhing else about the outboard is good - this is worth fixing.

What you wanna do is remove the lower unit and the water-pump (you were
gonna change the impeller anyway - RIGHT?) Then grab the shift shaft with
a pair of plyers (protect it with a rag) and try to turn it. It should also
hit detents as it shifts.

If it turns freely without shifting - you have a problem in the lower unit
and can take it to a (reputable) shop for repair - you already did 1/3 of
the labor. Have them use new seals while they're in there - good insurance.

Now if it appears to be shifting. then you need to check the shift ROD in
the leg. Move the shift LEVER up top and verify that the bottom of the rod
that mates with the shift SHAFT is turning. If it's not - the shift ROD is
broken (rust?). You could also test this first after you drop the lower
unit.

A broken shift rod is good news and bad news. The good news is that they
are readily available and very cheap on the used market. The bad news is
that you'll need to remove and replace the powerhead to get the sucker in
there.

-W

"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
6...

I assume that what you are talking about is the shift shaft, to which I
pointed out as the rod that went down to the lower unit before. I've
read elsewhere that this rod is supposed to go down in forwared and go
up in neutral and reverse. I'm not seeing the rod go up and down, just
clockwise and counterclockwise. I don't see any rust at all on the rod.
It appears to be an aluminum rod. Maybe you're talking about a different
part that I don't know about. Anyways, is there something that would
prevent the shift shaft from going up and down?


"Trond Solem" wrote in
k:

The gear shift axle is known to rust. Remove the gear, and check if
the shifting works directly on the gear. If it does, your shift axle
is the culprit.


"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
7...
First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put
it on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water
vents and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its
side. This last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and
fired it up. Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in
forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod
which goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider
by hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with
only a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables.
I don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was
shifting fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark

"Clams Canino" wrote in message
Hey, Clams, I've got an opportunity to pick up a nice boat, but the
motor is blown. I can get the boat for what I consider a good deal for
the boat only. The hillbilly doesn't know what exactly is "blown".
It's a 1987 150 Mercury XR-4. Any idea how much parts would run for a
decent rebuild? Let's assume a piston or two, rings, bearings, etc. Is
this a decent motor, if one WAS to make it run decent again?

Since you discussed hillbilly, it made me remember an old joke. On your
tombstone I can imagine them including your last words before you died:

"Watch This!"

Somehow I think the "hillbilly" is going to take you on this deal.




"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Clams Canino" wrote in message
Hey, Clams, I've got an opportunity to pick up a nice boat, but the
motor is blown. I can get the boat for what I consider a good deal for
the boat only. The hillbilly doesn't know what exactly is "blown".
It's a 1987 150 Mercury XR-4. Any idea how much parts would run for a
decent rebuild? Let's assume a piston or two, rings, bearings, etc. Is
this a decent motor, if one WAS to make it run decent again?

Not knowing what's blown it's tough to guess.

Figger about $50+ for rings, $30 for seals, $50+ for a gasket kit, and a
good $100 per piston.

To meet those numbers use Sierra or Pro-Parts - Mercury will rape you and
forget to use assembly lube on your ass!

If it's a chrome bore you may need to get the block sleeved if a bore is
damaged. If it has steel sleeves, all you'll need is an overbore.

While you're there you prolly wanna do up the fuel pump and the carbs. Add
a few more bucks for kits.

As for the motor itself, I prefer the inline 6 up to 150hp. But that motor
had a good rep. What you wanna do while it's all apart anyway, is find out
what other HP's that block was used in - and what's different - you *might*
be able to hop it up a bit.

-W


"basskisser" wrote in message
om...
"Clams Canino" wrote in message
Hey, Clams, I've got an opportunity to pick up a nice boat, but the
motor is blown. I can get the boat for what I consider a good deal for
the boat only. The hillbilly doesn't know what exactly is "blown".
It's a 1987 150 Mercury XR-4. Any idea how much parts would run for a
decent rebuild? Let's assume a piston or two, rings, bearings, etc. Is
this a decent motor, if one WAS to make it run decent again?

Update-

I was able to fix the problem. After dropping the lower unit and looking at
the shift shaft, I noticed it can rotate freely for about 90 degrees while
in forward gear. This is normal, however, when the lower unit is to be put
back on, you're supposed to rotate the shift shaft counter-clockwise (by
hand) till it catches. Whoever last dropped the lower unit did not do this.
Instead they probably rotated it al the way clockwise. So, when the shift
rod was rotating the shift shaft, it was only rotating the shaft in its
"free" state while in forward gear. The shift rod also rotates about 90
degrees from forward to reverse from the cowl down to the lower unit.

So, the teeth on the shift shaft and shift rod were actually fine, not
rusted. I rotated the shift shaft all the way counter-clockwise and made
sure the glider on the shift rail in the cowl was all the way forward
before putting the lower unit back on. Once I put it back together, it
worked fine.


-Mark



The rod *rotates*. Any up/down movement is incidental to it's function.

You should feel definate "snicks" when moving the lever up in the cowl by
hand. If you don't, then your problem is prolly down in the lower unit.

The shift *rod** goes down through the leg and mates to the shift *shaft*
in
the lower unit.

Assuming everyhing else about the outboard is good - this is worth fixing.

What you wanna do is remove the lower unit and the water-pump (you were
gonna change the impeller anyway - RIGHT?) Then grab the shift shaft with
a pair of plyers (protect it with a rag) and try to turn it. It should also
hit detents as it shifts.

If it turns freely without shifting - you have a problem in the lower unit
and can take it to a (reputable) shop for repair - you already did 1/3 of
the labor. Have them use new seals while they're in there - good insurance.

Now if it appears to be shifting. then you need to check the shift ROD in
the leg. Move the shift LEVER up top and verify that the bottom of the rod
that mates with the shift SHAFT is turning. If it's not - the shift ROD is
broken (rust?). You could also test this first after you drop the lower
unit.

A broken shift rod is good news and bad news. The good news is that they
are readily available and very cheap on the used market. The bad news is
that you'll need to remove and replace the powerhead to get the sucker in
there.

-W

"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
6...

I assume that what you are talking about is the shift shaft, to which I
pointed out as the rod that went down to the lower unit before. I've
read elsewhere that this rod is supposed to go down in forwared and go
up in neutral and reverse. I'm not seeing the rod go up and down, just
clockwise and counterclockwise. I don't see any rust at all on the rod.
It appears to be an aluminum rod. Maybe you're talking about a different
part that I don't know about. Anyways, is there something that would
prevent the shift shaft from going up and down?



"Trond Solem" wrote in
k:

The gear shift axle is known to rust. Remove the gear, and check if
the shifting works directly on the gear. If it does, your shift axle
is the culprit.


"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
7...
First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put
it on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water
vents and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its
side. This last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and
fired it up. Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in
forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod
which goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider
by hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with
only a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables.
I don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was
shifting fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark

Glad to hear you won!

I find it easiest to assemble them in neutral - where there is a definate
"snick" in the shift shaft.

-W

"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
6...
Update-

I was able to fix the problem. After dropping the lower unit and looking
at
the shift shaft, I noticed it can rotate freely for about 90 degrees
while
in forward gear. This is normal, however, when the lower unit is to be put
back on, you're supposed to rotate the shift shaft counter-clockwise (by
hand) till it catches. Whoever last dropped the lower unit did not do
this.
Instead they probably rotated it al the way clockwise. So, when the shift
rod was rotating the shift shaft, it was only rotating the shaft in its
"free" state while in forward gear. The shift rod also rotates about 90
degrees from forward to reverse from the cowl down to the lower unit.

So, the teeth on the shift shaft and shift rod were actually fine, not
rusted. I rotated the shift shaft all the way counter-clockwise and made
sure the glider on the shift rail in the cowl was all the way forward
before putting the lower unit back on. Once I put it back together, it
worked fine.


-Mark



The rod *rotates*. Any up/down movement is incidental to it's function.

You should feel definate "snicks" when moving the lever up in the cowl by
hand. If you don't, then your problem is prolly down in the lower unit.

The shift *rod** goes down through the leg and mates to the shift *shaft*
in
the lower unit.

Assuming everyhing else about the outboard is good - this is worth fixing.

What you wanna do is remove the lower unit and the water-pump (you were
gonna change the impeller anyway - RIGHT?) Then grab the shift shaft
with
a pair of plyers (protect it with a rag) and try to turn it. It should
also
hit detents as it shifts.

If it turns freely without shifting - you have a problem in the lower unit
and can take it to a (reputable) shop for repair - you already did 1/3 of
the labor. Have them use new seals while they're in there - good
insurance.

Now if it appears to be shifting. then you need to check the shift ROD in
the leg. Move the shift LEVER up top and verify that the bottom of the rod
that mates with the shift SHAFT is turning. If it's not - the shift ROD is
broken (rust?). You could also test this first after you drop the lower
unit.

A broken shift rod is good news and bad news. The good news is that they
are readily available and very cheap on the used market. The bad news is
that you'll need to remove and replace the powerhead to get the sucker in
there.

-W

"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
6...

I assume that what you are talking about is the shift shaft, to which I
pointed out as the rod that went down to the lower unit before. I've
read elsewhere that this rod is supposed to go down in forwared and go
up in neutral and reverse. I'm not seeing the rod go up and down, just
clockwise and counterclockwise. I don't see any rust at all on the rod.
It appears to be an aluminum rod. Maybe you're talking about a different
part that I don't know about. Anyways, is there something that would
prevent the shift shaft from going up and down?



"Trond Solem" wrote in
k:

The gear shift axle is known to rust. Remove the gear, and check if
the shifting works directly on the gear. If it does, your shift axle
is the culprit.


"Mark Wynkoop" wrote in message
7...
First, the background info:

I recently bought a 1968 Mercury 650 (red 65HP). The guy I bought it
from had the motor laying on its side. When I brought it home, I put
it on a stand.The next morning, I found oil leaking from the water
vents and exhaust. Not sure if that is normal from laying on its
side. This last weekend I put the lower unit in a tub of water and
fired it up. Thus I discovered the problem of the motor stuck in
forward.

The problem:
No matter where the shifter position was, it stays in forward.I could
not get it out of gear. So, under inspection, the slider that the
shifter cable connects to in under the cowl moves freely along the
rails. That is connected to a lever, which is connected to a rod
which goes directly down to the lower unit. The rod moves freely
counterclockwise and clockwise. Also, I was able to move the slider
by hand. I don't know if one should be able to move this by hand with
only a slight amount of force.

My thought is that something came loose since the motor was laying on
its side, or something happened when the guy disconnected the cables.
I don't know if maybe this rod slipped out of something in the lower
unit.I haven't taken it apart to find out. The guy said it was
shifting fine this summer when he sold it to me.

If this is something major, I'm just going to take it back to the guy
and get my money back. But, I'm willing to for go that if it is just
something simple.

Thanks,
Mark