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#32
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:34:57 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote: "bpuharic" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 11:59:11 -0400, wrote: The reason I live a good live is I paid myself first. I saved and invested, even back when my tax rate was over 20%. The typical middle class tax rate is far less than 10% now if I take your number of 100,000,000 people to define them. and 50% of americans have less than 10,000 in their 401k's. do you hate them all? Of those 50%, how many lease a nice car, live in a home that is a maximum mortgage or rent a nice place? I made good money, drove a Chevrolet, Ford, VW, and Toyota and Chevy LUV pickup over the years. As Greg states. Pay yourself first. We took resonable vacations with the kids and even after they left home. it's funny...you begrudge hard working middle class americans the fruit of their labor americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work 200 hours more than europeans and japanese. we have marginal health insurance. no vacations. no retirement. and the right wing says we're not working hard enough to make sure wall street stays rich |
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#33
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
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#34
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:07:36 -0400, wrote:
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:36:21 -0400, bpuharic wrote: On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:35:49 -0400, wrote: If your 401k manager's head was a quarter inch out of his ass he knew the market was crashing soon by 4q 2006 bull****. no one saw it save folks like roubini, etc. hell, t hey just indicted goldman sachs for fraud because they defrauded some of the world's most sophisticated investors. You are talking about the phony derivatives scams, the market would have crashed without that, it just wouldn't have needed the TARP to fix it. correct. but the CDOs...beyond the 'synthetic' ones...went from 1B in '96 to 60 TRILLION in 2006. so tell me how you cover that? if the guys who were DOING this **** for a living didnt see it, how was middle class america supposed to? They weren't "doing it" if they didn't see this one coming. ROFLMAO!! if they SAW it coming by committing fraud...what happened to the professional investors, the rating services, etc, who DIDNT see it coming?? you right wingers ALWAYS want to blame middle class america for wall street's lies and deceptions No I wouldn't blame anyone but myself for not seeing this crash coming. gee. and if you come home one day and find your house burglarized, do you blame yourself? you're gonna die someday. you gonna blame yourself? that's the problem with the right. they never blame criminals...IF the crooks are rich |
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#35
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
"bpuharic" wrote in message ... and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K since congress created it 30 years ago. You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your 401K. You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance, success and work of others. A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can* produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That, plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive. But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong. In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based on it. Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on my own performance. Eisboch |
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#36
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message ... and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K since congress created it 30 years ago. You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your 401K. You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance, success and work of others. A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can* produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That, plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive. But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong. In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based on it. Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on my own performance. Eisboch Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose primary goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary, investing in wall street offerings is both risky and stupid. -- The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name. |
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#37
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
On 4/18/10 11:40 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:19:19 -0400, wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:10:22 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:46:39 -0400, wrote: americans are the hardest working people in the western world. we work 200 hours more than europeans and japanese. Yet the Europeans save about 3 times as much as Americans You said you were working 60 hour weeks. That is 175% of your base salary and you didn't think you should be saving some of that? i'm salaried. i dont overtime and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K since congress created it 30 years ago. it's now worth what it was 10 years ago. i should have spent it on whores and booze like john paulson did when he looted goldman sachs for a billion yet in your mind he's a hero because he's rich, and i'm an idiot because i'm a hard working middle class guy shows what moral values the right has You probably make more money than I ever did. You just spend a higher percentage of it. A 401k is not savings, it is, at best, a substitute pension plan, at worst a Ponzi scheme. I predict that when the boomers start drawing down their 401ks the market will crash again. (and I seem to be pretty good at predicting market crashes, certainly better than your 401k manager) It's best to have available a variety of pensions and pension saving devices. -- The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name. |
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#38
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
"hk" wrote in message m... On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K since congress created it 30 years ago. You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your 401K. You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance, success and work of others. A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can* produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That, plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive. But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong. In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based on it. Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on my own performance. Eisboch Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose primary goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary, investing in wall street offerings is both risky and stupid. Sorry but I can't agree totally to that. There certainly have been some companies managed by greed. There have been some run by outright crooks. But I also believe that there are many that are run honestly,within the law that offer good produces, services and investment opportunities. With one exception, the few stocks I hold are in companies that I know something about, am familiar with their products and track records and, in some cases, know some of the senior management. I based my risk of investment on that knowledge. They don't make major headlines, aren't involved in shareholder fraud lawsuits, or otherwise show up much on the radar screen. They are all well managed, successful without being greedy and have shown an ability to adapt to changing times and markets. I've held them for many years. Despite the wild swings in the economy and crash of 2008, the modest investments I made have steadily grown 5 to 6 times or more. The only "new" stock I bought recently was Ford and did so when they were at about $1.46 a share and GM and Chrysler were just about goners. (well, actually, they *were* goners). I was impressed by the determination of Ford to forego government bailout money and attempt to make it on their own. So far they have. I can't say that for the brokerage houses that manage investments via 401K contributions or direct investments, but I am not qualified to judge. I've never used one. Don't trust them. Eisboch |
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#39
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
On 4/18/10 12:06 PM, Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message m... On 4/18/10 11:25 AM, Eisboch wrote: wrote in message ... and you have the density of a black hole. i've been saving in my 401K since congress created it 30 years ago. You have not been "saving" in your 401K. You've been placing bets in your 401K. You are betting that your investment will grow based on the performance, success and work of others. A 401K plan invested and managed for you or by you in the stock market *can* produce much higher returns than other investments or savings plans. That, plus the matching funds that some employers make have made them attractive. But ... it's still not a guarantied savings plan. There are risks associated with it. Correct me if I am wrong. In my world, I haven't and don't invest any more money in the stock market than that I am willing to lose. I certainly didn't plan my retirement based on it. Old fashioned, but it works for me. I am arrogant enough to rely mostly on my own performance. Eisboch Agreed, and since wall street was and is operated by crooks whose primary goal is to enrich themselves by whatever means necessary, investing in wall street offerings is both risky and stupid. Sorry but I can't agree totally to that. There certainly have been some companies managed by greed. There have been some run by outright crooks. But I also believe that there are many that are run honestly,within the law that offer good produces, services and investment opportunities. With one exception, the few stocks I hold are in companies that I know something about, am familiar with their products and track records and, in some cases, know some of the senior management. I based my risk of investment on that knowledge. They don't make major headlines, aren't involved in shareholder fraud lawsuits, or otherwise show up much on the radar screen. They are all well managed, successful without being greedy and have shown an ability to adapt to changing times and markets. I've held them for many years. Despite the wild swings in the economy and crash of 2008, the modest investments I made have steadily grown 5 to 6 times or more. The only "new" stock I bought recently was Ford and did so when they were at about $1.46 a share and GM and Chrysler were just about goners. (well, actually, they *were* goners). I was impressed by the determination of Ford to forego government bailout money and attempt to make it on their own. So far they have. I can't say that for the brokerage houses that manage investments via 401K contributions or direct investments, but I am not qualified to judge. I've never used one. Don't trust them. Eisboch Ahhh. Well, I got entirely out of the market some years ago, but I've crept back in a little. Bought some Apple stock last year at about $130 or so, and it is doing ok. -- The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name. |
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#40
posted to rec.boats
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Looking out for the wealthiest 2%
In article ,
says... On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:22:31 -0400, bpuharic wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 01:07:36 -0400, wrote: On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 21:36:21 -0400, bpuharic wrote: On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:35:49 -0400, wrote: If your 401k manager's head was a quarter inch out of his ass he knew the market was crashing soon by 4q 2006 bull****. no one saw it save folks like roubini, etc. hell, t hey just indicted goldman sachs for fraud because they defrauded some of the world's most sophisticated investors. You are talking about the phony derivatives scams, the market would have crashed without that, it just wouldn't have needed the TARP to fix it. correct. but the CDOs...beyond the 'synthetic' ones...went from 1B in '96 to 60 TRILLION in 2006. so tell me how you cover that? There is no way to cover that. The money never existed The government is trying to fix it by just printing more money. if the guys who were DOING this **** for a living didnt see it, how was middle class america supposed to? They weren't "doing it" if they didn't see this one coming. ROFLMAO!! if they SAW it coming by committing fraud...what happened to the professional investors, the rating services, etc, who DIDNT see it coming?? Lots of people saw the crash in housing and knew the market would follow that down. If you can find things I wrote in 2004 you will see I saw it coming. The prices in housing were simply unsustainable. you right wingers ALWAYS want to blame middle class america for wall street's lies and deceptions No I wouldn't blame anyone but myself for not seeing this crash coming. gee. and if you come home one day and find your house burglarized, do you blame yourself? you're gonna die someday. you gonna blame yourself? that's the problem with the right. they never blame criminals...IF the crooks are rich I would blame myself for not locking the door and having security measures in place. If you are asking what I think should happen to the people who caused this, throw them in jail. Obama's answer HIRE THEM as his advisors.! I am looking at Geithner on TV pontificating about outlawing things he advocated when he was in charge of the NY Fed and I should be watching him in an orange jumpsuit pickling up trash on the highway. I try to be as objective as possible about political matters, so it not with any malice that I suggest a corollary to having people such as Geithner and Summers in such high positions in the Obama administration is that of Werner von Braun as the head of the U.S. space program. The U.S. employed a number of ex-Nazis after WWII, for what I believe to be cynical motives. Personally, I believe as you do, that hanging them would have been the better option. I do believe we can muddle through challenges without the aid of the black hearted. It is sad that both political parties support these people who have shown such bad judgment in the recent past. Is it any wonder that the population is disturbed? Or are they? It seems Mr. Bpuharic would be pleased if Geithner and Summers would pump up his 401k to the level it was before the crash. And ignore that that reliance on Wall Street is what led to our current economic ills. It is a strange world. I sometimes get a customer who absolutely insists on a smaller shoe than is healthy for her. She will jam her feet into those shoes. I will not assist in this, BTW, and do my best to warn her off. But in the end, I can not refuse to sell her the shoes. It is the most disheartening aspect of my job, and I am only saddened more by learning of the death of one of my long-time customers. Though Mr. Bpuharic has made some points I agree with, his harping on his 401k is not one of them. Most of my customers who mention their 401k are happy that they have recovered as much as they have. I alway demur from financial discussions, but customers will talk. Peter |
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