On Apr 27, 12:53*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:29:14 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker

wrote:
Reply:
Lots of birds. *Lots of raptors. *The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. *But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths. *Major problem is they are build in grazing land. *So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

Bill, I asked for data, not heresay.

here is one source with links to othershttp://www.abcbirds.org/conservationissues/threats/energyproduction/w...

I think HK meant to Divide 40000 by 48 gallons/barrel to get 833
barrels/day, that is small. It is far less than the amount that
naturally leaks from deep seeps.

On 4/27/10 4:26 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 27, 12:53 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:29:14 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker

wrote:
Reply:
Lots of birds. Lots of raptors. The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths. Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

Bill, I asked for data, not heresay.

here is one source with links to othershttp://www.abcbirds.org/conservationissues/threats/energyproduction/w...

I think HK meant to Divide 40000 by 48 gallons/barrel to get 833
barrels/day, that is small. It is far less than the amount that
naturally leaks from deep seeps.


I believe what was quoted here was 40000 barrels a day. I was corrected
on the number of gallons per barrel. I assumed it was 55...it is
less...it is 42 gallons a barrel. So, no, I was not dividing, I was
multiplying. 40000 x 42 = more than a million and a half gallons *a day* .
The Exxon Valdez spilled about 10 million gallons in toto.



--
The Tea Party's teabaggers are just the Republican base by another name.

On Apr 27, 3:53*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:29:14 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker

wrote:
Reply:
Lots of birds. *Lots of raptors. *The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. *But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths. *Major problem is they are build in grazing land. *So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

Bill, I asked for data, not heresay.

here is one source with links to othershttp://www.abcbirds.org/conservationissues/threats/energyproduction/w...

10,000 to 40,000. Not alot in the grand scheme of things. And only 10%
were "raptors" or birds of prey.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Apr 27, 10:00 am, Frogwatch wrote:
I read an editorial somewhere concerning the small oil spill from the
oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico saying that windmills do not
explode or foul the environment but in reality windmills do kill
wildlife. In fact the average windmill kills hundreds of birds and
you can see vids of this on Youtube. One can also see vids of a
windmill “exploding” as it gets of balance as well. In fact, the
average windfarm probably kills more birds than this small oil spill
will.

That's actually quite deceptive. First of all, 46,000 gallons of crude
PER DAY is not a "small oil spill". Please show the links that provide
data on how many birds are killed via windmills.

Reply:
Lots of birds. Lots of raptors. The enviros were ecstatic about
windmills here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the
bird deaths. Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of
ground squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.



So, therefore, spilling 100s of 1000s of barrels of oil and polluting
beaches is ok.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"hk" wrote in message
m...
On 4/27/10 4:26 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Apr 27, 12:53 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:29:14 -0700 (PDT), Loogypicker

wrote:
Reply:
Lots of birds. Lots of raptors. The enviros were ecstatic about
windmills
here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths. Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of
ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

Bill, I asked for data, not heresay.

here is one source with links to
othershttp://www.abcbirds.org/conservationissues/threats/energyproduction/w...

I think HK meant to Divide 40000 by 48 gallons/barrel to get 833
barrels/day, that is small. It is far less than the amount that
naturally leaks from deep seeps.


I believe what was quoted here was 40000 barrels a day. I was corrected on
the number of gallons per barrel. I assumed it was 55...it is less...it is
42 gallons a barrel. So, no, I was not dividing, I was multiplying. 40000
x 42 = more than a million and a half gallons *a day* .
The Exxon Valdez spilled about 10 million gallons in toto.


No, no, and no! 40000 x 42 = 1 (Sarah Palin)

--
Nom=de=Plume

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...d+kill&spell=1

"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Apr 27, 1:52 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
"Loogypicker" wrote in message

...
On Apr 27, 10:00 am, Frogwatch wrote:

I read an editorial somewhere concerning the small oil spill from the
oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico saying that windmills do not
explode or foul the environment but in reality windmills do kill
wildlife. In fact the average windmill kills hundreds of birds and
you can see vids of this on Youtube. One can also see vids of a
windmill exploding as it gets of balance as well. In fact, the
average windfarm probably kills more birds than this small oil spill
will.

That's actually quite deceptive. First of all, 46,000 gallons of crude
PER DAY is not a "small oil spill". Please show the links that provide
data on how many birds are killed via windmills.

Reply:
Lots of birds. Lots of raptors. The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths. Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

Bill, I asked for data, not heresay.

Just google Alatmont wind farm lawsuit
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:52:36 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths.

Let's see a cite for that claim.

The plain fact is that every time somebody's against wind turbines,
usually for irrational and hypocritical esthetic reasons, they
suddenly become concerned with bird mortality. Ask any one of them to
show some evidence of previous concern, and all you'll get is
doubletalk.

Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

So what? The birds have for the most part thrived while learning to
avoid all manner of equipment. They do pretty well with turbines as
well. The few problems that do occur have mostly been the result of
siting turbines in migratory flight paths.

Here are some numbers: about 500 times as many birds are killed by
house cats than by wind turbines. Turbines account for but a few
one-thousands of one percent of total bird mortality in the US.
Figures like those have been readily available for a long time.


http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wi...-of-the-skies/
http://www.fws.gov/birds/mortality-fact-sheet.pdf
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

"The number of birds killed by wind turbines is also negligible when
compared to the number that die as a result of other human activities
such as traffic, hunting, electric power transmission and high-rise
buildings, the introduction of feral and roaming domestic cats,[8] and
especially the environmental impacts of using non-clean power sources.
For example, in the UK, where there are several hundred turbines,
about one bird is killed per turbine per year; 10 million per year are
killed by cars alone.[33] In the United States, turbines kill 70,000
birds per year, compared to 80,000 killed by aircraft,[34] 57 million
killed by cars, 97.5 million killed by collisions with plate
glass,[35] and hundreds of millions killed by cats.[8] An article in
Nature stated that each wind turbine kills an average of 4.27 birds
per year.[36]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ...nd_power#Birds


Wayne

On Apr 27, 4:21*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
Just google Alatmont wind farm wrote in message

...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:52:36 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. *But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths.

Let's see a cite for that claim.

The plain fact is that every time somebody's against wind turbines,
usually for irrational and hypocritical esthetic reasons, they
suddenly become concerned with bird mortality. Ask any one of them to
show some evidence of previous concern, and all you'll get is
doubletalk.

Major problem is they are build in grazing land. *So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

So what? The birds have for the most part thrived while learning to
avoid all manner of equipment. They do pretty well with turbines as
well. The few problems that do occur have mostly been the result of
siting turbines in migratory flight paths.

Here are some numbers: about 500 times as many birds are killed by
house cats than by wind turbines. Turbines account for but a few
one-thousands of one percent of total bird mortality in the US.
Figures like those have been readily available for a long time.

http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wi...ds-the-cuisina...
http://www.fws.gov/birds/mortality-fact-sheet.pdf
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

"The number of birds killed by wind turbines is also negligible when
compared to the number that die as a result of other human activities
such as traffic, hunting, electric power transmission and high-rise
buildings, the introduction of feral and roaming domestic cats,[8] and
especially the environmental impacts of using non-clean power sources.
For example, in the UK, where there are several hundred turbines,
about one bird is killed per turbine per year; 10 million per year are
killed by cars alone.[33] *In the United States, turbines kill 70,000
birds per year, compared to 80,000 killed by aircraft,[34] 57 million
killed by cars, 97.5 million killed by collisions with plate
glass,[35] *and hundreds of millions killed by cats.[8] *An article in
Nature stated that each wind turbine kills an average of 4.27 birds
per year.[36]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ...nd_power#Birds

Wayne

It is 40,000 gallons, not barrels. A 40,000 barrel/day well would be
a biggie and this was an exploratory well, not a producer.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 27, 4:21 pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
Just google Alatmont wind farm wrote in
message

...

On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:52:36 -0700, "Bill McKee"
wrote:

The enviros were ecstatic about windmills
here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of the bird
deaths.

Let's see a cite for that claim.

The plain fact is that every time somebody's against wind turbines,
usually for irrational and hypocritical esthetic reasons, they
suddenly become concerned with bird mortality. Ask any one of them to
show some evidence of previous concern, and all you'll get is
doubletalk.

Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So lots of ground
squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like for dinner.

So what? The birds have for the most part thrived while learning to
avoid all manner of equipment. They do pretty well with turbines as
well. The few problems that do occur have mostly been the result of
siting turbines in migratory flight paths.

Here are some numbers: about 500 times as many birds are killed by
house cats than by wind turbines. Turbines account for but a few
one-thousands of one percent of total bird mortality in the US.
Figures like those have been readily available for a long time.

http://skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wi...ds-the-cuisina...
http://www.fws.gov/birds/mortality-fact-sheet.pdf
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

"The number of birds killed by wind turbines is also negligible when
compared to the number that die as a result of other human activities
such as traffic, hunting, electric power transmission and high-rise
buildings, the introduction of feral and roaming domestic cats,[8] and
especially the environmental impacts of using non-clean power sources.
For example, in the UK, where there are several hundred turbines,
about one bird is killed per turbine per year; 10 million per year are
killed by cars alone.[33] In the United States, turbines kill 70,000
birds per year, compared to 80,000 killed by aircraft,[34] 57 million
killed by cars, 97.5 million killed by collisions with plate
glass,[35] and hundreds of millions killed by cats.[8] An article in
Nature stated that each wind turbine kills an average of 4.27 birds
per year.[36]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environ...nd_power#Birds

Wayne

It is 40,000 gallons, not barrels. A 40,000 barrel/day well would be
a biggie and this was an exploratory well, not a producer.


Except that the Coast Guard considers it one of the worst oil spill
disasters in our history.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"nom=de=plume" wrote in message
...
"Bill McKee" wrote in message
m...

"Loogypicker" wrote in message
...
On Apr 27, 10:00 am, Frogwatch wrote:
I read an editorial somewhere concerning the small oil spill from the
oil rig explosion in the Gulf of Mexico saying that windmills do not
explode or foul the environment but in reality windmills do kill
wildlife. In fact the average windmill kills hundreds of birds and
you can see vids of this on Youtube. One can also see vids of a
windmill "exploding" as it gets of balance as well. In fact, the
average windfarm probably kills more birds than this small oil spill
will.

That's actually quite deceptive. First of all, 46,000 gallons of crude
PER DAY is not a "small oil spill". Please show the links that provide
data on how many birds are killed via windmills.

Reply:
Lots of birds. Lots of raptors. The enviros were ecstatic about
windmills here for awhile. But now they want to limit them because of
the bird deaths. Major problem is they are build in grazing land. So
lots of ground squirrels that the Golden Eagles and other raptors like
for dinner.



So, therefore, spilling 100s of 1000s of barrels of oil and polluting
beaches is ok.

--
Nom=de=Plume



Comprehend the question asked.