On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

On Apr 29, 4:25*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 05:51:52 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:


they have their delusions. i have the facts


irrelevant. you're talking marginal influences

i'm talking meat and potatoes. *that's why you need FACTS rather than
right wing myth



Sorry, just can't buy those statistics.

yeah. god forbid you should actually consider facts. that would mean
rush is full of ****

You honestly think that
substantial increase didn't have anything do do with the many more
loans bundled up and sold off to investors? The fire that fueled the
CDO's and CDS's was the increase in loans and a "belief" that house
prices would continue to appreciate to astronomical levels.

?? what makes you think these had ANY relationship to the middle class
at all? jon chait in the 'new republic' details the king of CDO's,
'fab' tourre, in an email to his girlfriend, admitting these
'instruments' have NO relationship to ANY tangible assets at all

see, this is where you right wingers jump the track.

you have more faith in the rich than a saint has in christ, so are
unable even to comprehend that the 'financial engineering' (and, yes,
it's a real term, you can even major in it), has reality

contemporary finanical engineering invented instruments whose sole
worth was determined not by assets, but by perceived value of
investors...primarily the rich.

so they bought and sold this ghost investments to each other...told
each other the math was solid.

not realizing it was built on a house of cards....

but, of course, this involved the rich. not the middle class. you're
unable to even relate to such lies, because they DO involve the rich,
so you relate to them in the only way you've been taught

you blame the middle class

so, go ahead. believe 'fab' tourre. believe john paulson. go ahead.
keep voting right wing...they'll laugh all the way to the bank as you
continue to blow out the middle class.


If you really want to start tracing the origins of this mess, go look-
up the Community Reorganization Act (CRA) from the 70's. It was a
legitimate program.


25 of the largest 26 mortgage companies that went bust

were not subject to the CRA. another right wing myth.

But, later on (as you'll read), it became a *penalty* (and fine) for
banks not to loan (signed by Bill Clinton). Years later, the greedy
assholes on WS sunk their teeth into it and developed creative
financial tools to capitalize on it. But again, they were not
*solely* responsible. Many people, including us, were.

that's right. we kept voting right wing.

and they just kept laughing all the way to our paychecks


Mike

"Mike" wrote in message
...
On Apr 29, 12:01 pm, "nom=de=plume" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...
On Apr 29, 6:18 am, bpuharic wrote:



On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:22:17 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

On Apr 27, 7:11 pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:41:42 -0400, John H
wrote:

no wonder the rich hate lawyers. they've prevented any protection for
the middle class...and they want to gut the last vestiges of any
protection at all

Would you please do us all a favor and get off your "the middle class
got screwed kick"?

I'm "middle class" but don't whine like a bitch, like 99% of you're
posts do. Get over it, for Christ's sake.

ROFLMAO!! glenn beck cries rivers about the poor rich.

canucks and others here telll us how we MUST suck the cocks of the
rich because americans are REQUIRED to protect them and make them feel
good

*You* relied on the Wall Street pigs to "gamble" your money (401K
plan).

uh, no. me and 100,000,000 others did as we were told by the rich

-we worked hard
-we gave up our pensions to the rich
-we used the ONLY retirement vehicle open: 401k's

and we got screwed. all of use. the average drop in 401k's in the last
3 years was 35%

8,000,000 jobless. foreclosures at a record...

Maybe, just maybe, it's not always somebody else's fault. Take a hard
look in the mirror.

more right wing bull****. blame the victim. it's NEVER the rich, you
see. THEY didn't invent CDO's. it's the fault of the middle class;
although, as conservative david frum pointed out, the middle class
hasnt had a pay increase in

TEN YEARS

so tell me...how is it the fault of the middle class?

Doesn't matter though; you're brainwashed. Carry on with your ranting
and raving.

*You* got screwed. We get it.

Good grief :)

yeah. the problem with the right is they deny there's a problem.
caused by the unregulated free market.

they have their delusions. i have the facts
As much as I can't stomach some of the sleezy losers on Wall Street,
including the banks that endorsed creative BS financial tools like
CDS's, do you honesty think we, as middle class, were not somewhat
responsible for the record foreclosures, as you've claimed?

Yes. I think many people over-extended themselves without really thinking
about it as much as they should. That doesn't absolve WS for lying and
cheating though.

I know people that were fully aware should not be trying to take out a
loan for a $450K+ house but did so anyway. Also know people that
purposely faked their true incomes to get the loans. And, many were
on a "home-flipping" spree and bragging about it during the housing
bubble. They knew what they were doing.

I know people who were leveraged up to the Empire State's roof line. One
couple bought 20 houses across the country. They're now bust. They didn't
fake income, however.

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

But, according to you, it wasn't their fault. They were the "victims".

Give me a break.

*Many* were responsible for the housing bubble and subsequent crash.
Including us regular Joe's and Jane's. But also people like your
beloved Dems in Congress, namely The Honorable Congressman Barney
Frank.

Yes, there's blame to go around. I think we get your point. Now, as to
solutions... WS needs regulation. Banks need regulation, but your beloved
Republicans were blocking (up until yesterday) even debate on what should
be
done. Instead they wanted "backroom" deals first.

I haven't followed all the recent political crap of late, but can
offer this:

isn't it already being regulated without the Government's formal
intervention in the form of reform?

One can have a firm, fixed income in the 6-figure range, a reasonable
income to debt ratio, a 750 credit score and *still* can't get a loan.

Those that do obtain loans have to go through a colonoscopy to get
one.

Mike


Not regulated enough, apparently. You're right about the can't get a loan
part. It's a pill for everyone.

On Apr 29, 6:12*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



On Apr 29, 4:25*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 05:51:52 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

they have their delusions. i have the facts

irrelevant. you're talking marginal influences

i'm talking meat and potatoes. *that's why you need FACTS rather than
right wing myth

Sorry, just can't buy those statistics.

yeah. god forbid you should actually consider facts. that would mean
rush is full of ****

*You honestly think that

substantial increase didn't have anything do do with the many more
loans bundled up and sold off to investors? *The fire that fueled the
CDO's and CDS's was the increase in loans and a "belief" that house
prices would continue to appreciate to astronomical levels.

?? what makes you think these had ANY relationship to the middle class
at all? jon chait in the 'new republic' details the king of CDO's,
'fab' tourre, in an email to his girlfriend, admitting these
'instruments' have NO relationship to ANY tangible assets at all

see, this is where you right wingers jump the track.

you have more faith in the rich than a saint has in christ, so are
unable even to comprehend that the 'financial engineering' (and, yes,
it's a real term, you can even major in it), has reality

contemporary finanical engineering invented instruments whose sole
worth was determined not by assets, but by perceived value of
investors...primarily the rich.

so they bought and sold this ghost investments to each other...told
each other the math was solid.

not realizing it was built on a house of cards....

but, of course, this involved the rich. not the middle class. you're
unable to even relate to such lies, because they DO involve the rich,
so you relate to them in the only way you've been taught

you blame the middle class

so, go ahead. believe 'fab' tourre. believe john paulson. *go ahead.
keep voting right wing...they'll laugh all the way to the bank as you
continue to blow out the middle class.



If you really want to start tracing the origins of this mess, go look-
up the Community Reorganization Act (CRA) from the 70's. *It was a
legitimate program.

25 of the largest 26 mortgage companies that went bust

were not subject to the CRA. another right wing myth.

But, later on (as you'll read), it became a *penalty* (and fine) for
banks not to loan (signed by Bill Clinton). *Years later, the greedy
assholes on WS sunk their teeth into it and developed creative
financial tools to capitalize on it. *But again, they were not
*solely* responsible. *Many people, including us, were.

that's right. we kept voting right wing.

and they just kept laughing all the way to our paychecks



Mike

You know, the more I *get* your POV, the more I understand.

As I said before, get over it. The chip on your shoulder is one of
the largest I think I've ever seen.

I don't vote "Republican" all the time. In fact, here and there.
Votes are based on a (trying) legitimate common sense approach.

I don't like Politicians for the most part. I think they are
generally *all* corrupt. Doesn't matter what political affiliation
they belong to.

You're still wrong. You're just brainwashed to think the big, bad,
world is out to get you.

If you're living paycheck-to-paycheck, I understand. Make yourself
more valuable to your employer (or if you are an employer build
something of value).

But, stop blaming everyone else. You are brainwashed, as I've
mentioned before. Frankly, your attitude sucks. Keep it up and
you'll be one miserable "prick" for the rest of your life.

Think about it. Just offering a different POV. No offense.

Mike

On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 23:44:07 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:

On Apr 29, 6:12*pm, bpuharic wrote:
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:05:36 -0700 (PDT), Mike
wrote:



and they just kept laughing all the way to our paychecks



Mike

You know, the more I *get* your POV, the more I understand.

As I said before, get over it. The chip on your shoulder is one of
the largest I think I've ever seen.

'getting over it' is just another way of saying 'let 'em do it again'.

sorry. i don't enjoy getting raped.


You're still wrong. You're just brainwashed to think the big, bad,
world is out to get you.

hardly. if i was, i'd be a teabagger muttering about socialists and
the bilderbergers, like canuck does


If you're living paycheck-to-paycheck, I understand. Make yourself
more valuable to your employer (or if you are an employer build
something of value).

ROFLMAO!! with 8M unemployed, how valuable is ANYONE to his employer?
you right wingers have your little myths...no facts. it's cute!


But, stop blaming everyone else. You are brainwashed, as I've
mentioned before. Frankly, your attitude sucks. Keep it up and
you'll be one miserable "prick" for the rest of your life.

damn right my attitude sucks. i'm tired of seeing good, honest,
hardworkin people getting SCREWED economically AND having to take the
blame for the problems we have

and you? you just keep grabbing your ankles. nothing will ever get
changed that way? and the guys on wall street will just keep lining up
for another shot at you.

the difference between you and me is i'm willing to do something about
the problems we have. you just want to blame the victims.

Mike

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:01:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.


You would not get very far. The FBI does not have any jurisdiction
over what is considered a local fraud case involving a home buyer and
a loan officer. There is even a pretty good question about who was
committing the fraud. The loan people (calling them "officer" is
ridiculous), were coaching the buyers on how to fill out the
application so it would go through and there was no real credit
checking going on.
These mortgage companies were getting money in $50 million dollar
blocks and getting bonuses if they could write loans.
My wife was building houses and closing 2 a week, That is about a
million bucks a week gross.


I'm betting I would get quite far. At the minimum, they would recommend who
to call. Banking fraud, if it is that, is a federal crime.

In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:01:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.


You would not get very far. The FBI does not have any jurisdiction
over what is considered a local fraud case involving a home buyer and
a loan officer. There is even a pretty good question about who was
committing the fraud. The loan people (calling them "officer" is
ridiculous), were coaching the buyers on how to fill out the
application so it would go through and there was no real credit
checking going on.
These mortgage companies were getting money in $50 million dollar
blocks and getting bonuses if they could write loans.
My wife was building houses and closing 2 a week, That is about a
million bucks a week gross.


I'm betting I would get quite far. At the minimum, they would recommend who
to call. Banking fraud, if it is that, is a federal crime.

Even at state chartered banks?

"BAR" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
says...

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:01:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.


You would not get very far. The FBI does not have any jurisdiction
over what is considered a local fraud case involving a home buyer and
a loan officer. There is even a pretty good question about who was
committing the fraud. The loan people (calling them "officer" is
ridiculous), were coaching the buyers on how to fill out the
application so it would go through and there was no real credit
checking going on.
These mortgage companies were getting money in $50 million dollar
blocks and getting bonuses if they could write loans.
My wife was building houses and closing 2 a week, That is about a
million bucks a week gross.


I'm betting I would get quite far. At the minimum, they would recommend
who
to call. Banking fraud, if it is that, is a federal crime.

Even at state chartered banks?




Do you seriously believe they wouldn't direct me to the proper
authority????????

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 May 2010 10:16:15 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:01:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.


You would not get very far. The FBI does not have any jurisdiction
over what is considered a local fraud case involving a home buyer and
a loan officer. There is even a pretty good question about who was
committing the fraud. The loan people (calling them "officer" is
ridiculous), were coaching the buyers on how to fill out the
application so it would go through and there was no real credit
checking going on.
These mortgage companies were getting money in $50 million dollar
blocks and getting bonuses if they could write loans.



I'm betting I would get quite far. At the minimum, they would recommend
who
to call. Banking fraud, if it is that, is a federal crime.


You would end up at Fannie and Freddie if you followed the money,
eventually getting to congress.
That was another thing that got de facto deregulation. The lenders
were discouraged from trying to hard to disqualify marginal buyers and
when this thing crashed, otherwise very credible buyers were suddenly
marginal. Nobody really believed the market could crash and they
thought that if a buyer defaulted, they would just sell the house to
the next guy on the list at a higher price
If this was just who wrote a bad loan, you could easily bust a lot of
$35,000 a year loan clerks but how high did you want to go? Do you
want to go up to told them it was OK, or even those who made it a
condition of employment.




They aren't enforcement agencies... the FBI is one.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 May 2010 23:49:11 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 10:16:15 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 1 May 2010 22:01:42 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:f8vpt5tba13ilcshlfurdcfn1cok5cdb15@4ax. com...
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:01:09 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

If you knew people that faked income or committed some other kind of
fraud,
did you turn them in? Probably not, so you can't be blameless
either.

Who would you turn them in to?

Dial 911?

There were no cops who were going to care, nor was the federal
government concerned Fannie and Freddy were writing NINJA loans
themselves.


I'd start with the FBI.


You would not get very far. The FBI does not have any jurisdiction
over what is considered a local fraud case involving a home buyer and
a loan officer. There is even a pretty good question about who was
committing the fraud. The loan people (calling them "officer" is
ridiculous), were coaching the buyers on how to fill out the
application so it would go through and there was no real credit
checking going on.
These mortgage companies were getting money in $50 million dollar
blocks and getting bonuses if they could write loans.



I'm betting I would get quite far. At the minimum, they would recommend
who
to call. Banking fraud, if it is that, is a federal crime.


You would end up at Fannie and Freddie if you followed the money,
eventually getting to congress.
That was another thing that got de facto deregulation. The lenders
were discouraged from trying to hard to disqualify marginal buyers and
when this thing crashed, otherwise very credible buyers were suddenly
marginal. Nobody really believed the market could crash and they
thought that if a buyer defaulted, they would just sell the house to
the next guy on the list at a higher price
If this was just who wrote a bad loan, you could easily bust a lot of
$35,000 a year loan clerks but how high did you want to go? Do you
want to go up to told them it was OK, or even those who made it a
condition of employment.




They aren't enforcement agencies... the FBI is one.


The FBI would not look into a case where somebody fudged a loan
application.


Never said they would or wouldn't. I said I would start with them and they
would certainly direct me to the proper authority.