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#12
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:31:09 -0500, Gene
wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:10:03 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 21:57:05 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:57:42 -0500, BAR wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-just-a-thing- of-the-past-724017.html That article is 10 years old. THIS year, Europe has been clobbered with snow....just as predicted by the global increase in temperature.... If only there were some natural mechanism for explaining the warming and cooling of the earth. Obviously, there is..... It would have to be unreasonably large, however -- on the scale of our own sun. Exactly..... Oh wait - yes there is!!!! http://www.solarcycle24.com/pictures/spots.jpg See Dalton Minimum for more information. :) Obviously, this is all documented.... what is NEW is the amount of contribution of warming by human intervention. Is it huge-er than anything contributed by the SUN? No, demonstrably not..... ..then comes the concept of the tipping point..... ...true or not true? I don't think we have science good enough to tell. (Well, the science is good, the data sucks....) Life lesson: About 30 years ago, I was involved in take off, estimation, and purchasing involved in the potential of a huge-ass stacker reclaimer project to be located in Charleston.... Long story short.... the VP in charge of sales balked at going over the details YET AGAIN... and the VP in charge of manufacturing replied, "godammit, do you mind if we go over it again, it is XX million dollars we are discussing..." a misstep would have bankrupted the company.... Now.... as I see it, we have the same problem.... if the contribution of heat by man is sufficient, if there *IS* a tipping point, it could mean the end of life as we know it..... It *always* deserves a second consideration.... especially consideration of the finality of a wrong answer... We have the correct and verifiable answers? Al Gore is right? Global warming is caused by man? No.... just, no. The penalty for error? Can we count again.....? Sounds logical to me. |
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#13
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 22:36:57 -0500, Gene
wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 22:09:10 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:31:09 -0500, Gene wrote: Now.... as I see it, we have the same problem.... if the contribution of heat by man is sufficient, if there *IS* a tipping point, it could mean the end of life as we know it..... I agree with that completely. However, scientists are supposed to be skeptical. A good scientist will never, EVER, say definetly, positively, absoutely, "pinky swear" and something is incontrovertible fact. Only mathematicians can make those kinds of statements and usually those are covered by caveats. There has been no, I repeat no, real science on climate change. Things like average global temperature just don't exist. Can't exist unless you can cover every square meter of land and sea with temperature reporting devices and that ain't gonna happen. You can't even use statistical techniques, including fractal math I might add, to obtain an average temperature - the biosphere is too large. The science has been all one sided with no room for other ideas and concepts. Well known effects of solar science are dismissed as "secondary" or "irrelevant". It's all about carbon. Answer me this - Mt. Pinatubo blew up in 1991, it released some ungodly amount of CO2 into the atmosphere along with some other noxious gases like hydrogen sulfide and a couple of other "ides". Net result - a decrease in reported temperatures of about 1 degree Celisus. The amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere was equal to the entire CO2 output of the world for ten years - TEN years. Hello? Bueller? You're right - we don't know. Erroring on the side of change though is economically treacherous. What is needed is good science - real science that accounts for everything, solar, atmophere, pollution - the whole panoply of sciences that directly affect our living space. The solution isn't "clean energy". Under the guise of "carbon reduction" movement of wealth from the developed world and giving it away to the un-developed world - it's as simple as that. It is an international social solution to third world poverty - it's not about climate science. That does not mean that we shouldn't work towards a fossil fuel free future - I agree that is important and necessary if only because of the pollution problems. But we need more and better science - not some faked, fudged "temperture" charts, hocus pocus emotionally charged statements about settled science. Basically, I get all that, but we have to realize that the worse case scenario might be correct..... and the penalty for that is infinite..... Can we set all of the politics and hyperbole aside and look at the science.... as accurate data evolves? Why is it that we love Rush, Jesus, the Republican Party, etc., etc., and therefore can ignore science and any data..... because our daddies tell us what to think.....? Most of the counter arguments are fielded by those who know nothing about science and yet it's considered an equal fight between those who promote the idea of climate change and man's very potential hand and those who rely on hyperbole. It reminds me of the fight between evolution and intelligent design. Or, Nancy Reagan's just say no. Trickle down science. |
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#14
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
In article ,
says... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 21:31:53 -0500, Gene wrote: On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:44:40 -0500, I am Tosk wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 20 Dec 2010 20:10:03 -0500, W1TEF wrote: On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 21:57:05 -0500, Gene wrote: On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:57:42 -0500, BAR wrote: http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-just-a-thing- of-the-past-724017.html That article is 10 years old. THIS year, Europe has been clobbered with snow....just as predicted by the global increase in temperature.... If only there were some natural mechanism for explaining the warming and cooling of the earth. It would have to be unreasonably large, however -- on the scale of our own sun. Oh wait - yes there is!!!! http://www.solarcycle24.com/pictures/spots.jpg See Dalton Minimum for more information. :) As I said, if you don't know the science, then you can't make an informed judgment. What if you know the science is fudged? I mean we have proof of that. On the same hand, you don't have proof that my "faith" is fudged, yet you are quick to dismiss that, it just doesn't add up really... Please cite...... Fox News Channel is likely his best cite. Did you read Trenbath's hit piece in the latest issue of Science? |
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#15
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
On 12/20/10 11:21 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
No, I am talking about the deliberate manipulation Ahhh...Faux News at its best! |
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#16
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:02:09 -0500, Harryk
wrote: On 12/20/10 11:21 PM, I am Tosk wrote: No, I am talking about the deliberate manipulation Ahhh...Faux News at its best! Golly, let's hope Snotty didn't witness Shep Smith dressing down the Republicans for holding up the 911 bill. It might've caused a spontaneous cranial implosion. |
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#17
posted to rec.boats
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Somebody Forgot To Tell Mother Nature
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