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#31
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
On 1/7/11 8:11 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
In articleNb6dnZrukcPwkrrQnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/7/11 7:53 AM, I am Tosk wrote: In , payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote: I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle, Please explain. Pffftttt... Yeah, I kinda figured *that* was the lack of thought underpinning your absurd statement, "Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle." Fortunately, Alec Issigonis wouldn't have paid any attention to you back then, and no automotive engineer would pay any attention to you today. But, hey, go ahead...go through life wallowing in your ignorance. STFU, you don't know what google is talking about.. I have raced front wheel drive vehicles.. Come back to me when you actually know what you are talking about...snerk.. I do know what I am talking about; you do not. Your ignorant statement is all the proof that is needed. Please explain why it "Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle." Use your own words. Go ahead. Oh, it's axles, by the way, usually. |
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#32
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
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#33
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
On 1/7/11 8:30 AM, Harryk wrote:
On 1/7/11 8:11 AM, I am Tosk wrote: In articleNb6dnZrukcPwkrrQnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/7/11 7:53 AM, I am Tosk wrote: In , payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote: I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle, Please explain. Pffftttt... Yeah, I kinda figured *that* was the lack of thought underpinning your absurd statement, "Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle." Fortunately, Alec Issigonis wouldn't have paid any attention to you back then, and no automotive engineer would pay any attention to you today. But, hey, go ahead...go through life wallowing in your ignorance. STFU, you don't know what google is talking about.. I have raced front wheel drive vehicles.. Come back to me when you actually know what you are talking about...snerk.. I do know what I am talking about; you do not. Your ignorant statement is all the proof that is needed. Please explain why it "Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle." Use your own words. Go ahead. Oh, it's axles, by the way, usually. For someone who said you were going to let the "Righties" stir up all the **** in rec.boats, you seem to be doing your best to stay ahead of them in the insult count. |
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#34
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says... On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote: I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle, Please explain. Well, I can as the real Harry, because if you remember, I took many mechanical engineering courses. First of all, when the driven wheels are also the steering wheels, there are parts that are under a LOT of stress at times, such as the CV joints. Then if you lose traction like in snow, no steering. Simple as that. |
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#35
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
In article , payer3389
@mypacks.net says... On 1/7/11 7:53 AM, I am Tosk wrote: In , payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote: I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle, Please explain. Pffftttt... Yeah, I kinda figured *that* was the lack of thought underpinning your absurd statement, "Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle." Fortunately, Alec Issigonis wouldn't have paid any attention to you back then, and no automotive engineer would pay any attention to you today. But, hey, go ahead...go through life wallowing in your ignorance. Spoofer, please see my previous reply and get back to me. |
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#36
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
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#37
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
On 1/7/11 8:43 AM, HarryK wrote:
In , payer3389 @mypacks.net says... On 1/6/11 10:25 PM, I am Tosk wrote: I still hate front wheel drive.. Just doesn't make sense to have the steering and drive on the same axle, Please explain. Well, I can as the real Harry, because if you remember, I took many mechanical engineering courses. First of all, when the driven wheels are also the steering wheels, there are parts that are under a LOT of stress at times, such as the CV joints. Then if you lose traction like in snow, no steering. Simple as that. There are many advantages of rear wheel drive over front wheel drive, and they have been discussed for many years by auto engineers. A quick Google came up with this: 1) "Balance": The car rides on four patches of rubber, each about as big as your hand. An ideal car would distribute its weight evenly, so each tire had to bear the same load, and none would give way earlier than all the others. The ideal weight distribution, then, would be split about 50/50 between front and rear (actually, 48/52 to help with forward pitch during braking). "A rear-drive car can typically approach that," says Zellner. Engineers can move the front wheels forward, so that the engine – which doesn't have to be connected to those wheels -- sits behind the front axle. Meanwhile, the driveshaft and rear differential (necessary to send power to the rear tires) add weight in the rear. Front-drive cars, which must connect the engine and transmission to the front axle, typically have their engines mounted way forward and can't do much better than a 60/40 front/rear weight distribution. 2) Center of Gravity: This is the point the car wants to "rotate around" in a turn. On a rear-drive car, it's "about where the driver sits," says Zellner. In a turn, in other words, the car seems to be rotating around you – you're at the center. It's a natural pleasant effect, suggesting you're in control, the way you're in control when you're walking or running around a corner and your weight is centered inside you. (Analogy No. 2: It's like wearing stereo headphones and having the sound centered between your ears!) A front-drive car, in contrast, with its massive front weight bias, wants to rotate around a point in front of the driver. So in a corner, the driver isn't just rotating around his spine. He's moving sideways, as if he were a tether ball on the end of a rope, or Linus being dragged when Snoopy gets hold of his blanket. Not such a pleasant feeling, or a feeling that gives you a sense of natural control. 3) "Torque Steer": One of the most annoying habits of many powerful front-drive cars is that they don't go straight when you step on the accelerator! Instead, they pull to one side, requiring you to steer in the other direction to compensate, like on a damn boat. This "torque steer" usually happens because the drive shafts that connect the engine to the front wheels aren't the same length. Under power, the shafts wind up like springs. The longer shaft -- typically on the right -- winds up a bit more, while the shorter left shaft winds up less and transmits its power to the ground more quickly, which has the effect of pulling the car to the left. (This winding-up phenomenon occurs the moment you step on the pedal. After that, the wind-up relaxes, but "torque steer" can still be produced by the angles of the joints in the drive axles as the whole drivetrain twists on its rubber mounts.) Veer madness?Veer madness?Engineers try various strategies to control this veering tendency, but even designing shafts of equal length (as in all Cadillacs) doesn't completely solve the problem because the engine still twists a bit in its mounts and alters the angles of the drive shafts. True, some manufacturers -- Audi, for example -- are said to do a particularly good job of repressing torque steer . But even a top-rank company such as Nissan has problems -- its otherwise appealing new front-drive Maxima is said to be plagued by big-time, uninhibited torque steer. Rear-drive cars, meanwhile, don't really have a torque-steer problem that needs repressing. Their power goes to the rear through one driveshaft to a center differential that can a) have equal-length shafts coming out from it and b) be more firmly mounted. 4) Weight Shift: Suppose you just want to go in a straight line. What's the best way to get traction? Answer: Have as much weight over the driving wheels as possible. Front-drive cars start with an advantage -- but when any car accelerates, the front end tips up, and the rear end squats down. This transfers weight to the rear wheels -- away from the driving wheels in a FWD car but toward the driving wheels in a rear-drive car, where it adds to available traction. In effect, the laws of physics conspire to give RWD cars a bit more grip where they need it when they need it. (This salutary effect is more than canceled out in slippery, wet conditions, where you aren't going to stomp on the accelerator. Then, FWD cars have the edge, in part, because they start out with so much more of their weight over both the driving and the turning wheels. Also, it's simply more stable to pull a heavy wheeled object than to push it -- as any hotel bellhop steering a loaded luggage cart knows. In snow, FWD cars have a third advantage in that they pull the car through the path the front tires create, instead of turning the front tires into mini-snowplows.) 5) "Oversteer" and the Semi-Orgasmic Lock-In Effect: In a rear-drive car, there's a division of labor -- the front tires basically steer the car, and the rear tires push the car down the road. In a FWD car, the front tires do all the work – both steering and applying the power to the road – while the rears are largely along for the ride. That, it turns out, is asking a lot of the front tires. Since the driving wheels tend to lose traction first, the front tires of front-drive cars invariably start slipping in a corner before the lightly loaded rear tires do -- a phenomenon known as "understeer." If you go too fast into a curve -- I mean really too fast -- the car will plow off the road front end first. In rear-drive cars, the rear wheels tend to lose traction first, and the rear of the car threatens to swing around and pass the front end -- "oversteer." If you go too fast into a corner in an oversteering car, the car will tend to spin and fly off the road rear end first. |
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#38
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
"Tim" wrote in message ... On Jan 6, 12:39 pm, "MMC" wrote: The Land Rover 110 used to be the hot ticket but the Toyotas are a lot more dependable and handle a lot better. The old one liner: "Did you hear about the guy that bought a new Land Rover and it didn't leak any oil so he kept taking it back and hounding the dealer till they got it right?" ======= haha! That sounds right! |
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#40
posted to rec.boats
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Smaller trucks?
On 1/7/11 9:14 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
And anybody who has raced knows if you are going off the road, hit the gas and get that back end between you and the guardrail. I did this without even thinking about it a few years back when I hit the ice in my Wrangler... I slid long enough to know I wasn't catching it, so as I came around I stayed in the throttle to turn the vehicle and we hit rear end first, nobody was injured. This doesn't work well in four wheel either so back then I used to stay in 2 wheel until I needed it to pull out of something. Now with crazy computer controlled traction on my new Jeep, I let it decide how to act, you just can't drive it fast though, not what it's made for. If you try to take a fast corner, the computer brakes wheels and tries to get you back unless you switch it off  The top performing rally cars are FWD and 4WD. Whatever problems you are having with your vehicles is attributable to your driving skills or lack of same. |
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