BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

"John wrote in message ...

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 12:31:25 -0500,
wrote:


On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:20:37 -0500,
wrote:


It's hard, but not impossible, to believe you don't see the
"non-confrontational" aspects of your union-bashing post.

It's not necessarily bashing when the truth is spoken. On the other
hand it is certainly off topic, and to a certain extent, inflammatory.

Given all that, and in the interest of group harmony, discussions of
unions and government employees don't really belong here. We all know
how it ends up and there is very little new that hasn't already been
said in the past.

I'd rather talk about boats and boating - went for a nice little sail
yesterday on the Caloosahatchie River. Boat was a 24 ft Sonar class
which sails very well with 2 to 6 people aboard but 3 or 4 is close to
ideal. Weather was very nice - mid 70s with light to moderate winds.

http://www.getawaysailing.com/images2/sonar.jpg

http://www.nyss.com/NYSS/Jpeg/nyss-08.jpg

http://www.nyss.com/NYSS/Jpeg/nyss-09.jpg

On the other, other hand, one shouldn't have to fear retribution from Harry for
posting a true life experience.

I'm surprised you said nothing about this post:

"Wow... you're just a downer for everything. I guess creating 8000 jobs
and pumping $8B into the economy is the wrong thing. But, of course,
San Francisco is Pelosi country, so it must be a terrible idea."

...talk about inflammatory and political!!


Krause was banished from Maryland Shooters list for similar shenanigans.
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=26680&page=4
It seems like he acts like an asshole wherever he posts.
Wouldn't it be a good idea if we just ignored him?

Harry ingratiates himself with the locals everywhere he goes. It's a
wonder he has ended up in a dumpster with a messed up shoe.



At least the Clinton administration had the decency to kill Vince Foster
in a park.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:08:07 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:01 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:32:20 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:52:08 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 15:07:20 -0800, wrote:

Cato Institute? Do you know who they are?
That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO.
That has nothing to do with what they actually do.

"Vice-President Gore leads the Administration’'S efforts to reinvent
government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that
Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal
[civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and
common sense changes have been made in the way government works
that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing


That was a great PR stunt but nobody was laid off. There was an
incentive for people to take what was essentially a buyout into early
retirement. I know a guy who took it.
The overall government workforce stayed about the same anyway.


So, you're claiming that U of Missouri was lying??? But, you believe
everything the Heritage Foundation says...

No, you are claiming these people were fired ... remember what this
was about?
I am saying they simply allowed people to retire without replacing all
of them. This was not a layoff and they moved others around to fill
the slots.
There is a CBO report on H.R.3218 that lays out one of these programs
and explains all of this.

Later in your article you notice they ended up promoting people from
lower grades to higher grades and the payroll actually went up.
It also shifted a lot of the burden from the payroll to the unfunded
pension system, something that corporate America was doing

You said that the federal worker is basically immune from downsizing.
This is not correct. Seems to me you want it both ways. You want
"permanent" jobs, but then complain when people have that.

I said a federal worker is virtually impossible to fire and will not
get laid off. You have only reinforced that statement. The article you
posted said the people who left were rolled into the retirement
system, either because they were of age or because they got an
incentive. I know a guy who took the incentive (basically full
retirement at an earlier age). The only decline in headcount was in
not hiring new people to replace them That was a temporary situation.

Yeah... really hard....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

On 1/6/11 5:32 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

Nice use of pejorative, it clearly shows why you get banned from every
moderated group you infect...



Sorry, Scotty, but I'm no longer playing your game. Have a nice life.

On 1/6/11 5:56 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In article55ydnT7L8Mi72bvQnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 5:32 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

Nice use of pejorative, it clearly shows why you get banned from every
moderated group you infect...



Sorry, Scotty, but I'm no longer playing your game. Have a nice life.

You never really did... although I do think you might have given it a
bit of a shot last month...



Last month...oh, I remember...that's when you were actively urging more
ID spoofing here, and otherwise behaving like a flaming asshole. I'm
sure you'll find some playmates here...perhaps you might want to hang
with Ziggy, the ID Spoofer, the Loogy, the LG, the Bert, the Herring, et
cetera. They're really more your type than mine, since I have little use
for rightwingers and morons.

Sorry, I'm not interested in your ill-informed opinions on the world, on
politics, on music, on child-rearing, or any of the other nonsense that
vent here, except as a source of giggles.

Have a nice life.

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:48:07 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:55:11 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:08:07 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:52:01 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 23:07:06 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:32:20 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 20:52:08 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 15:07:20 -0800, wrote:

Cato Institute? Do you know who they are?
That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO.
That has nothing to do with what they actually do.

"Vice-President Gore leads the Administration’'S efforts to reinvent
government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that
Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal
[civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and
common sense changes have been made in the way government works
that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing


That was a great PR stunt but nobody was laid off. There was an
incentive for people to take what was essentially a buyout into early
retirement. I know a guy who took it.
The overall government workforce stayed about the same anyway.


So, you're claiming that U of Missouri was lying??? But, you believe
everything the Heritage Foundation says...

No, you are claiming these people were fired ... remember what this
was about?
I am saying they simply allowed people to retire without replacing all
of them. This was not a layoff and they moved others around to fill
the slots.
There is a CBO report on H.R.3218 that lays out one of these programs
and explains all of this.

Later in your article you notice they ended up promoting people from
lower grades to higher grades and the payroll actually went up.
It also shifted a lot of the burden from the payroll to the unfunded
pension system, something that corporate America was doing

You said that the federal worker is basically immune from downsizing.
This is not correct. Seems to me you want it both ways. You want
"permanent" jobs, but then complain when people have that.

I said a federal worker is virtually impossible to fire and will not
get laid off. You have only reinforced that statement. The article you
posted said the people who left were rolled into the retirement
system, either because they were of age or because they got an
incentive. I know a guy who took the incentive (basically full
retirement at an earlier age). The only decline in headcount was in
not hiring new people to replace them That was a temporary situation.

Yeah... really hard....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.

Well, I'm not sure what to say. You claim that the UofM is either
wrong or lying, and you don't believe that Fed. workers were in
jeopardy, even though that would have been the case had Bunning not
relented. I'm not sure what you believe at this point.

On 1/6/11 9:19 PM, wrote:


derstand how the 171 process works. If your
government position is eliminated you get the highest priority to be
hired by any other agency. Basically they have a hard time hiring
anyone until all current employees are in new positions so they find
you a job (just like any other union). Again this virtually always
happens before you miss a paycheck. In fact in all of the 70s
relocations, I don't know a single person who lost a dime. It is more
likely that you get a promotion but you can always find something.

Damn, you have more patience than anyone I have ever known. Do you ever
feel like you are talking to a brick wall?

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:19:19 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:38:07 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:48:07 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:55:11 -0800, wrote:


Yeah... really hard....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.

Well, I'm not sure what to say. You claim that the UofM is either
wrong or lying, and you don't believe that Fed. workers were in
jeopardy, even though that would have been the case had Bunning not
relented. I'm not sure what you believe at this point.

I know how these appropriations fights are fought. They "shut down"
some function of government, there is a lot of saber rattling and the
citizens see locked doors but the AFGE agreement doesn't change,
nobody gets fired and when they finally hammer out the deal they want
on the hill everyone gets their back pay ... if the paychecks ever
stopped. They usually just keep coming right on schedule.
You say there are layoffs where civil service workers actually lost
their job and you still haven't showed us any.You have shown early
retirements and paid days off but no layoffs.
You also have to understand how the 171 process works. If your
government position is eliminated you get the highest priority to be
hired by any other agency. Basically they have a hard time hiring
anyone until all current employees are in new positions so they find
you a job (just like any other union). Again this virtually always
happens before you miss a paycheck. In fact in all of the 70s
relocations, I don't know a single person who lost a dime. It is more
likely that you get a promotion but you can always find something.

Like this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101220/..._until_january

On Jan 7, 1:12*am, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:38:50 -0800, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 21:19:19 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:38:07 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:48:07 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 10:55:11 -0800, wrote:

Yeah... really hard....

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...-of-federal-wo...

I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.

Well, I'm not sure what to say. You claim that the UofM is either
wrong or lying, and you don't believe that Fed. workers were in
jeopardy, even though that would have been the case had Bunning not
relented. I'm not sure what you believe at this point.

I know how these appropriations fights are fought. They "shut down"
some function of government, there is a lot of saber rattling and the
citizens see locked doors but the AFGE agreement doesn't change,
nobody gets fired and when they finally hammer out the deal they want
on the hill everyone gets their back pay ... if the paychecks ever
stopped. They usually just keep coming right on schedule.
You say there are layoffs where civil service workers actually lost
their job and you still haven't showed us any.You have shown early
retirements and paid days off but no layoffs.
You also have to understand how the 171 process works. If your
government position is eliminated you get the highest priority to be
hired by any other agency. Basically they have a hard time hiring
anyone until all current employees are in new positions so they find
you a job (just like any other union). Again this virtually always
happens before you miss a paycheck. In fact in all of the 70s
relocations, I don't know a single person who lost a dime. It is more
likely that you get a promotion but you can always find something.

Like this one?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20101220/...nment_shutdown...

Yes exactly like that one. EVERY ONE OF THOSE EMPLOYEES GOT BACK PAY
in spite of a lot of them not working. On these "shutdowns", part of
the deal that finally gets hammered down on the hill is that the AFGE
members get their back pay whether they actually came to work or not.
Most stay home. That is part of the "Close the Washington Monument"
blackmail that shutting down the government imposes on the citizens.
They usually target the most visible agencies and then the news media
hypes it up. They bury the story that these people actually get their
money on the back of the social page, if it gets covered at all,

Did you read the story?
"In all, 28 days saw a partial government shutdown. The second lapse
was the longest in history at 22 days. The effects and consequences
were temporary even though millions of people were effected."

"The effect was TEMPORARY" They got paid.

Again you still have not talked about anyone LOSING their job in a
layoff.

That is because the ignorant twit has nothing to accomplish in her
miserable existance but to argue.

On 1/6/2011 6:07 PM, Harryk wrote:
On 1/6/11 5:56 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In article55ydnT7L8Mi72bvQnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@earthlink .com, payer3389
@mypacks.net says...

On 1/6/11 5:32 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On 1/6/11 3:48 PM, wrote:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcno...ilibuster.html


I guarantee you they will get every dime of their pay, even though
they stayed home. This is just another "shut down the government"
thing like the mid 90s. Nobody lost a dime then either.
I suspect people in LA don't understand that.


Wow...all the excitement of attending a teabagger rally without
actually
having to be anywhere near those sorts of folks! :)

Nice use of pejorative, it clearly shows why you get banned from every
moderated group you infect...



Sorry, Scotty, but I'm no longer playing your game. Have a nice life.

You never really did... although I do think you might have given it a
bit of a shot last month...



Last month...oh, I remember...that's when you were actively urging more
ID spoofing here, and otherwise behaving like a flaming asshole. I'm
sure you'll find some playmates here...perhaps you might want to hang
with Ziggy, the ID Spoofer, the Loogy, the LG, the Bert, the Herring, et
cetera. They're really more your type than mine, since I have little use
for rightwingers and morons.

Sorry, I'm not interested in your ill-informed opinions on the world, on
politics, on music, on child-rearing, or any of the other nonsense that
vent here, except as a source of giggles.

Have a nice life.

Like I said, you're obsessed with him, like a bully. Every time you say
you're done with him, you're back to take another swing.

So much for the status you believe you attained in life. The past 15+
years you've been here picking fights with people.

Pretty *ucking sad.