On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF
wrote:

On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 14:07:48 -0500, Harryk
wrote:

On 1/3/11 1:49 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 08:46:01 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jan 2011 20:53:33 -0800, wrote:


There is no such thing as a permanent job any more. Name one.

Incumbent politicians, judges, career military, Priests, Ministers,
tenured university professors and educators...that's seven - want some
more?

I guess you missed the last election, judges can be removed, never
heard of DOTD?, religious leaders can be removed, tenured educators -
maybe. That's what you're basing your jobs recovery on... that list?

You can define it personally anyway you want, the plain truth is that
the classic legal definition of permanent and temporary jobs exists,
has for a hundred or so years - the fact that you don't like it isn't
relevant.

There are no currently relevant "permanent" jobs. The fact that you
don't know squat about legal definitions isn't my fault.

You two are arguing semantics. Therefore, no winner is possible.

No, I'm stating the legal definition describing permanent and
temporary employment as found in contract and administrative law not
to mention Economics 101.

Something, by the way, you are probably very familiar with being, in
part, a contract worker occasionally.

Ms. Plum is arguing her own definition of same as being reality which
it isn't.

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.

I find it truly interesting that you're so concerned with permanent
vs. "temporary" or contract employment, as though the rare instance of
permanent employment is solution to the job situation in this country.
You claim that a job isn't any good because it's not permanent, yet
most jobs in the US (by a wide margin) are not considered permanent
(esp. in at-will states, where permanence is even more tenuous). By
this standard, we could have full (contract/temp) employment and you
would claim that it doesn't solve anything, when it's obvious that
_any_ job, even if it only lasts one day, is a net positive for the
economy, the person hired, the company, agency, or person who hires
him/her, and dependents of that person.

I think you need to reevaluate your position, since it makes little
sense either economically or politically.

On 1/4/11 4:10 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:58:49 -0500,
wrote:


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.


Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :)

Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company.


When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 16:18:56 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:06:59 -0800, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

Completely untrue.

How do you know what a GSA guy told me. I bet you didn't even know
what GSA was without looking it up.
If you are saying it is easy to fire a federal worker you are just
ignorant of the US Civil Service.

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

Completely untrue.

Again, how the hell do you know about this? How many years have you
worked in federal offices and how many federal worker bees do you
know? I was in DC for 38 years and about half of the people I have
known all my life were federal workers or the kids of federal workers.
It is what they do in that city. I also spent 15 years working in
federal offices, most of the time down where the GS 5-11s work. I am
not going to say the slugs get promoted but they can just sit in a GS
5 or 7 job for years, taking their in grade step raises and do fine.

http://www.redstate.com/nikitas3/201...rs-fired-good/

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 17:41:55 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 13:34:51 -0800, wrote:



A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

Completely untrue.

How do you know what a GSA guy told me. I bet you didn't even know
what GSA was without looking it up.
If you are saying it is easy to fire a federal worker you are just
ignorant of the US Civil Service.

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/


Cato Institute? Do you know who they are?
That is a Libertarian group saying what the government SHOULD DO.
That has nothing to do with what they actually do.

"Vice-President Gore leads the Administration’'S efforts to reinvent
government, making it work better, cost less, and get results that
Americans care about. Under his leadership, the size of the federal
[civilian] workforce has been reduced by about 350,000 people, and
common sense changes have been made in the way government works
that have saved the taxpayers $ 137 billion."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3973816/Re...ral-Downsizing



It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

Completely untrue.

Again, how the hell do you know about this? How many years have you
worked in federal offices and how many federal worker bees do you
know? I was in DC for 38 years and about half of the people I have
known all my life were federal workers or the kids of federal workers.
It is what they do in that city. I also spent 15 years working in
federal offices, most of the time down where the GS 5-11s work. I am
not going to say the slugs get promoted but they can just sit in a GS
5 or 7 job for years, taking their in grade step raises and do fine.

http://www.redstate.com/nikitas3/201...rs-fired-good/

A good start but I said US Civil Service, not the states.

See previous.


The states are going to be getting rid of lots of people because they
are broke but I do not see much happening beyond normal attrition in
the federal government. The only way they have actually trimmed the
size since the 50s was not hiring people to replace ones who retired
and even doing that is very rare. I am not sure the USCS has actually
reduced headcount since the Eisenhower administration.

Now you are.

Obama has increased the size of the federal workforce by 10% in 2
years.

And the problem with this is.....?

Average annual salary of all full-time employees was $79,179 in 2008.

http://federaljobs.net/overview.htm

Sorry, but I don't need a job.


http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-civil-service


Uh huh.. the heritage foundation. Sure. We should believe them....

"I am Tosk" wrote in message ...
In article ,
says...
snippage

Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :)

Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company.


When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector.

Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some
by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there
was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I
worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up
through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all
out too....

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!


Krause is married to the union, literally. Everyone who has a pulse knows how corrupt those union folks are. But they are falling like dominoes now. Check out your own state of Connecticut if you want to see examples.

--
Ziggy®

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 10:25:06 -0500, W1TEF
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of
supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer. Probably
similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is strong, the
non-performers are in luck.

The public (and their kids) suffer.

On 1/4/11 5:43 PM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...
snippage

Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :)

Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company.


When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector.

Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some
by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there
was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I
worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up
through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all
out too....


You do know he threw out the bait and you swallowed it hook line and sinker.

On 1/4/11 6:34 PM, Ziggy® wrote:
"I am wrote in message ...
In ,
says...
snippage

Of course, in the private sector, you get promoted for stealing. :)

Only if you steal for the company, not if you steal from the company.


When it comes to criminal activity, no one beats the private sector.

Bull, and you know it. For one, the private sector is slowed down some
by accountability. When I worked at the non-union shop, Stanadyne, there
was no where near the amount of raw criminal activity going on as when I
worked for the Union at Finast. That "untouchable" attitude goes up
through the ranks of the Union, they were dirty as hell and sold us all
out too....

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!


Krause is married to the union, literally. Everyone who has a pulse knows how corrupt those union folks are. But they are falling like dominoes now. Check out your own state of Connecticut if you want to see examples.


It appears that Krause wants to pretend he is interested in a nice place
to discuss boating and to stop the bickering, but he really wants to
throw out bait and see if he can get the fish worked up into a tizzy and
then say "see, I was good and look at how terrible everyone else is".
Don't take the bait.

On 1/4/11 6:51 PM, John H wrote:
On Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:49:02 -0500, wrote:



O
wrote:

In truth, nothing is permanent in life - including life itself, but
the definition has to exist so that some order can be made out of
hiring, firing, replacing labor or workers.


A federal Civil Service worker is about as hard to get rid of as a
tenured professor. There has not been a real RIF (layoff) since the
50s. There have been some reorganizations that eliminated jobs but the
workers simply moved across the street, or in some cases just stayed
where they were and GSA changed the sign on the building. (The Carter
administration was probably the best example of that). A GSA guy I
knew said they were thinking about using thumb screws to mount the
signs because they changed so often.

It is possible to fire a government worker for stealing or not showing
up but if they are there every day, you can't fire them for
incompetence or goofing off..They just get shuffled off to another
agency if anything happens at all. Usually they just get put back in a
corner and ignored.

The AFGE is quite protective. They can manage to waste enough time of
supervisors that it's probably cheaper to reassign the non-performer. Probably
similar to the firing of worthless teachers. Where the union is strong, the
non-performers are in luck.

The public (and their kids) suffer.

Oooooh...I just love it when righties do their best to maintain a
non-confrontational atmospherein rec.boats.

Me, I'll just...watch.

On Jan 1, 8:41*pm, "Califbill" wrote:
"Harryk" *wrote in message

...

On 1/1/11 12:43 PM, wrote:

Wow... this will be fun!

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci.../san-francisco...

Where would the actual racing take place? Out in the open ocean or...a
course around Alcatraz Island? The latter would sure draw shoreline
crowds on all sides of the Bay.

Reply: *Could be around Alcatraz to the Farallon Islands *and back. *already
a couple sailboat races a year that do that. *About 26 miles to the islands.
There are questions on how a bankrupt city like SF can afford to do the
upgrades required.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110101/...iling_americas

I'm not really into that kind of racing but if it can pump some more
money back into the US I'm all for it.