"Rod McInnis" wrote
:
: I have never seen a system that simply applied the trailer brakes whenever
: the stop light was on. First off, such a controller would only have one
: setting. On a panic stop, you really want those trailer brakes to work to
: their fullest extent. On the other hand, you sure don't want the trailer to
: drag you to a quick stop just because you tapped the brakes slightly.
:
My last controller was a pure electric - called a 'timed' controller, that
provides the trailer brake voltage slowly from low to high. Useless in
a panic stop, overheats at stoplights, cheap. Had a big panic button
and a large timing selector. Couldn't tell you the name - burned
it in a campfire after coming down the Cajon Pass for the first time.

Goes to show how one can hang ones ass out from lack of
askin' 'round for a clue.

Gotta Prodigy now and am most pleased.
Dave

http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.htm
The link above may be of interest.
DB

"Gary Warner" wrote in message
...
So I'm back to this question again. I thought we had it settled when we
were
going to
have someone else build us a trailer, but now that we're going to build it
ourselves,
all options are open again.

I looked back at the answers from the April 10, 2003 thread "Trailer Brake
Questions" and at
other sources on the web. Any other information or comment would be
welcome and appreciated.


ELECTRIC BRAKES
+ More control over the braking
+ The brakes work in reverse, which might help at the ramp
- Might cost more ?
- Can't use in (salt) water
(Some people said they use in water without problem. Maybe
special/newer
models)
- Any tow vehicle has to be wired for it.
- Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the
brakes in an emergency separation.

ELECTRIC over HYDRAULIC:
This is where the controller is electric but that controlls a hydraulic
master cylinder.
+ Still have the finer control of electiric.
+ The brakes work in reverse
+ No problem in water as the electric is no in the water.
- Higher cost?
- Tow vehicle has to be wired for it.
- Have to have & maintain a backup battery on the trailer to activate the
brakes in an emergency separation.

HYDRAULIC-SURGE:
+ Self contained on the trailer, no special wiring on vehicle
+ Works fine, possibly lower cost.
+ Can have free-backing brakes or reverse-lockout-solenoid so brakes are
not
active when backing.
- Breaks do not work in reverse...which you might want on a steep/slippery
ramp.
- May be illegal in some states ??


QUESTION:
On a hydraulic system, if there was any problem with one fitting or line
would that
mean the breaks on all four wheels (dual-axel trailer) would stop working?

Hi Gary,

I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to
Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic,
with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer).

We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow
vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and
straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work,
even without a boat.

The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but
it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a
vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small
bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking
up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a
product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional
driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was
tight).

Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the
ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it
won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We
tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up
above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small
nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas
how to stop this next time?

My 2¢
My vote's for standard hydraulic as well.

Reason: KISS

Hope I helped.
Donny


1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

On 29 Sep 2003 17:08:44 -0500, Donny wrote:

Hi Gary,

I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to
Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic,
with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer).

We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow
vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and
straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work,
even without a boat.

The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but
it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a
vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small
bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking
up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a
product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional
driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was
tight).
The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there are NO
SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much (when
loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the bumps
in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a basketball.
Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would have
to pump them up again before loading.

JJ


Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the
ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it
won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We
tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up
above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small
nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas
how to stop this next time?

My 2¢
My vote's for standard hydraulic as well.

Reason: KISS

Hope I helped.
Donny


1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

Donny,

Glad to hear of your good trailer experience.

I have just one comment: Keep the tire pressure up to maximum rated psi
and let the springs or torsion bars do their job to smooth out the ride.
Emergency handling and reduced tendency to fishtail will fare better with
higher pressure.=20

On my own trailer with 2700lb load, I was told by the trailer =
manufacturer
who in turn got it from the tire manufacturer that if I reduced pressure
from 50PSI to 35PSI the load rating for each tire would reduce from 1750
lbs to 1100 lbs.

I'd rather have the extra capacity and stability so I keep the tires at
60PSI. The boat is riding easier with tandem axles and equalizers =
anyway.

I like the hydraulic disc surge brakes too.

lorendi



On 29 Sep 2003 17:08:44 -0500, Donny
wrote:

Hi Gary,

I just returned yesterday from a 10 hour ride from far Upstate NY to
Northeastern NJ to pick up a CHERRY of a trailer. It is hydraulic,
with stainless steel disks on one axle, (twin axle trailer).

We had a panic stop situation in heavy rain, unloaded trailer. The tow
vehicle, (Chevy Astro van), has antilock brakes. We stopped short and
straight, leaving me no doubt about how well the trailer brakes work,
even without a boat.=20

The seller advised letting air out of the tires for a better ride, but
it seemed to, "hop", all the way home, seeming to develop a
vibration/occilation of sorts that would start when we hit a small
bump, and continue for a second or two. It wasn't the brakes locking
up in any way. Anybody know what would cause this? Is it just a
product of the empty, flexible trailer? (FWIW, I'm a professional
driver, so the trailer was thoroughly pretripped, and everything was
tight).

Also, the hitch receiver, and the corresponding hitch bar that has the
ball attached, RATTLED all the way home, driving us crazy. I know it
won't do this with the boat on, but is there a way to stop this? We
tried a bungee cord around the bottom of the hitch bar, tying it up
above to the bumper, but that didn't do it. If i had a couple small
nails, I would have driven them into the gap as a quick fix. Any ideas
how to stop this next time?

My 2=A2
My vote's for standard hydraulic as well.

Reason: KISS

Hope I helped.
Donny


1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

Margaret & Loren Block Georgetown, TX
C22 #14903 "Perfect Harmony"

The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there are NO
SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much (when
loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the bumps
in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a basketball.
Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would have
to pump them up again before loading.

JJ

Hi JJ,

It's a torsion bar suspension, not leaves, but that probably doesn't
matter. Spring is a spring, right.

This wasn't so much bouncing as it was a sort of vibration. When I
looked in the mirror, you could see the frame doing a very slight but
quick, wave like action, almost like a guitar string, for lack of a
better analogy.

I bet it has something to do with the overall harmonics of the trailer
frame, I just wonder if there was a way to stop it.

And how about the VERY slight play between the square hitch tube and
the hitch bar with the ball on it. How do I take up that slack without
welding it? It's such a tight space.

Thanks.
Donny
1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

Donny,

Glad to hear of your good trailer experience.

I have just one comment: Keep the tire pressure up to maximum rated psi
and let the springs or torsion bars do their job to smooth out the ride.
Emergency handling and reduced tendency to fishtail will fare better with
higher pressure.

On my own trailer with 2700lb load, I was told by the trailer manufacturer
who in turn got it from the tire manufacturer that if I reduced pressure
from 50PSI to 35PSI the load rating for each tire would reduce from 1750
lbs to 1100 lbs.

I'd rather have the extra capacity and stability so I keep the tires at
60PSI. The boat is riding easier with tandem axles and equalizers anyway.

I like the hydraulic disc surge brakes too.

lorendi


Hi Lorendi,

This was towing an unloaded boat trailer home from a dealer, no boat.
I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the flexibility of the
aluminum frame. I was just looking for ways to offer up an answer for
the next newbie who has to tow an empty trailer a few hours, because I
really don't see us ever towing it unloaded any farther than from the
ramp to the parking lot.

Thanks!
Donny
1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

(Dan D.) wrote in message
I still vote for surge but electric have moved up in my opinion from
years ago.

Peace!
Dan D. Louisville Ky good ole USA

Dan, FYI, I had a travel trailer with electric brakes, and the type of
switch that attaches to the brake pedal of the truck. I had a VERY
hard time adjusting that the way that I wanted, so I bought a
controller that uses a dampened pendulum. After a few minor
adjustments, that thing works VERY nice. I've got it adjusted so that
it doesn't skid the trailer, but works so well, it stops almost like
I'm not pulling anything.

I have a travel trailer with electric brakes.
They do work in reverse.
In fact they work so well in reverse that I have to turn them
off when backing as it becomes very difficult to back into my
home parking spot with them on.

Why is that, do you keep your foot on the brake when you back up?

Rod, my home parking spot is slightly downhill.
I'm usually backing up with my foot on the brake.
This applies too much trailer brake and stops me.
I let off the brake - they release - I lurch back and hit the pedal again....
So I roll off the brakes with the thumb wheel and park it!

When your brake lights are on the controller is applying braking
voltage to the trailer.

I have never seen a controller like this, can you provide a brand name?

First, my travel trailer is small and light. About 2200 lbs loaded.
So I went for the cheap controller. As I said it simply applies voltage
anytime the brake lights are on.
You set the amount of voltage with the thumb wheel.
They are not smart brakes ie they apply at the setting of the thumb wheel
no matter if you are rolling up gently or in a panic stop.
They're fine for most situations with my LIGHT weight trailer.
I would not advise them for a heavy trailer or boat.

I'm at work ;-) and do not remember the brand name but I'm quite sure most
any trailer or RV store would have them. Just ask for the cheapest controller
he has. I think it was about 60 bucks.
If you want a name send me an email and I'll gladly dig out my papers
and send you the manufacturer.
kydan at myrealbox dot com
It has the LEDs like mentioned in another post.
Green means it is connected to the trailer.
Yellow is light braking.
Red is heavy breaking but you will not see red unless you turn up
the thumb wheel.

Also earlier in this thread I think someone said electric brakes wouldn't
work in reverse because of the way the brake shoes face or something.
I guess they were talking about "leading or trailing" shoes.
My trailer brakes act like they want to lock up in reverse but work
just fine in forward directions. This is why I turn mine off for backing.
Remember I'm in a trailer. I'm not backing down a steep boat ramp!!

I repeat -- my trailer is light weight.
I would want surge or pendulum control electric if I had a bigger rig.

Peace! Dan D. Louisville KY good ole USA

"Donny" wrote in message
...
The springs are set for the max weight of the loaded trailer and there
are NO
SHOCKS on a trailer. If it is empty the springs will not compress much
(when
loaded the friction between the leaves provides a little damping) and the
bumps
in the road cause an empty trailer to bounce on its tires like a
basketball.
Reducing tire pressure somewhat when empty would help, but then you would
have
to pump them up again before loading.

JJ

Hi JJ,

It's a torsion bar suspension, not leaves, but that probably doesn't
matter. Spring is a spring, right.

This wasn't so much bouncing as it was a sort of vibration. When I
looked in the mirror, you could see the frame doing a very slight but
quick, wave like action, almost like a guitar string, for lack of a
better analogy.

I bet it has something to do with the overall harmonics of the trailer
frame, I just wonder if there was a way to stop it.

And how about the VERY slight play between the square hitch tube and
the hitch bar with the ball on it. How do I take up that slack without
welding it? It's such a tight space.

Thanks.
Donny
1974 Trojan Sea Raider 25'

www.picturetrail.com/sixbennetts

http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/donny_bennett.html

There is a rubber snubber that goes on the tube. maybe Bass Pro shops or
Cabelas carries them. OR try Champion trailers.
Bill