Damage to the shoreline from powerboats?
Sounds like you better get over it if you're out there a lot in the
water. Wakes happen. Not that other boats shouldn't keep a distance
and slow down at times, I really agree, but you have to expect some
wakes. Just because your boat doesn't make one ( you didn't say but
I'm assuming your a sailboater,) doesn't give you the right to bitch
at every boat thats going by making one. I hate getting rocked too,
but then I realize that it's only water and wakes happen.
Live on a busy street? It's going to be noisy and busy. Want the
noise and bustle to stop? Move someplace else. Thats life guy. Don't
let it ruin the rest of the experience if you can help it.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0700, "QLW" wrote:

We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3 to
5 foot wakes.

We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3 to
5 foot wakes.

Ok, sounds like you do have a good understanding of the issues ( in my
opinion.) And I do agree with you, there are a lot of jerks out there,
just like all the jerks on the highway that have no courtesy and no
regard for safety.
I don't think videos will help. Videos of illegal dumping might be
used in evidence, but I don't think videos of wreckless boat driving
will help any more than if you took the videocamera in the car with
you and ran to the police with a tape of somebody driving recklessly.
I don't think they would take the time to watch the tape or try to
write a ticket based on a videotape.


On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:50:54 -0700, "QLW" wrote:

Unlike most weekend boaters, I live on the water and my dock and boats (both
power and sail) are setup so that wake is not a problem. I also make wake
with my fishing boat and seadoo right out in front of my house that affects
my and my neighbors boats and piers. OTH if there are people in boats out
in the narrow sections I slow down and in the wide sections I give them a
wide berth. I am mainly referring to large boats running past hull speed in
the canals that are designated 6 mph zones and other areas that common sense
should be enough to dictate a change in speed. I'll soon have a 30' power
boat in my boat house that will be capable of creating a large wake and I'll
have the courtesy not to inflict that wake on others. Out in the open bay,
wakes are not a concern. But it was not just the wakes that I've found to
separate planning hull boats from the hull speed bunch, it's an attitude
thing.

That's not to say that we didn't meet some friendly courteous power boaters
(remember, I'm one too) but we sure endured a bunch of jerks too. Like the
one 40 footer that came roaring past our two sail boats as we approached the
park docks on McGregor Island (1000 Islands) sending a huge wake into all of
the boats tied up at the docks. It looked like there was only one dock
space left and he was going to have it...everyone else be damned. As it
turned out, there was another boat traveling with him that did not have
enough room to get past us or just chose not to pull the same stupid stunt
and it pulled up outside the dock area and waited. There were actually
three dock spaces left but one was in really shallow water. We took the two
slips in deeper water but after checking the depth determined that I could
move to the shallow slip if my keel was up and we did that to allow the
other boat to dock. I wonder if the 1st jerk would have extended me the
same courtesy had the roles been reversed... I really doubt it. I can
relate many more instances in the same vein but won't waste the time...you
should get the drift.

Because I live on a fairly busy waterway and I spent a lot of time out on
the water, I see boater behavior on a daily basis and I can say without
fear of contradiction that planning hull power-boaters, as a group, are by
far the most discourteous, unseamanly and environmentally unfriendly of all
boater groups. I know that PWC can be a problem in some areas but they have
been a non-issue for us and we see a lot of them. I don't believe that I
should just "get over" bad behavior on the part of any group of people and
from this point on I'll take video and turn the jerks in when it is clear
that they are breaking an established set of rules. I did exactly that to
the commercial fishermen that were using our Bayou as a dumping ground for
their old boats. After the CG and Sheriff used my video to nab a few of
them, they no longer dump their boats...at least not in this bayou. It
really ****es me off that we have instituted a tough set of rules for the
PWC in Texas and yet let the big boats do far more damage without
consequence. 600' ships produce less wake than these idiots.
Hell, I don't mind waves or wakes. My boat can handle it. I often seek out
back clouds to sail under just to get really good rail down sailing. But
not in an anchorage, narrow channel or where my boat handling will adversely
affect other boats.

It's interesting to note that the other boat that accompanied us on this
trip is captained by a highly experienced man that has done professional
sal****er boat deliveries for years. At one point during the trip he said
"I know parts of Texas and Louisiana where these jerks would be running
around with numerous .30 cal leaks at the waterline if they behaved like
this very often".

"jchaplain" wrote in message
.. .
Damage to the shoreline from powerboats?
Sounds like you better get over it if you're out there a lot in the
water. Wakes happen. Not that other boats shouldn't keep a distance
and slow down at times, I really agree, but you have to expect some
wakes. Just because your boat doesn't make one ( you didn't say but
I'm assuming your a sailboater,) doesn't give you the right to bitch
at every boat thats going by making one. I hate getting rocked too,
but then I realize that it's only water and wakes happen.
Live on a busy street? It's going to be noisy and busy. Want the
noise and bustle to stop? Move someplace else. Thats life guy. Don't
let it ruin the rest of the experience if you can help it.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0700, "QLW" wrote:

We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on
the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both
boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of
the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time
to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I
got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake
or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore
by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals
that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold
these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3
to
5 foot wakes.

Unlike most weekend boaters, I live on the water and my dock and boats (both
power and sail) are setup so that wake is not a problem. I also make wake
with my fishing boat and seadoo right out in front of my house that affects
my and my neighbors boats and piers. OTH if there are people in boats out
in the narrow sections I slow down and in the wide sections I give them a
wide berth. I am mainly referring to large boats running past hull speed in
the canals that are designated 6 mph zones and other areas that common sense
should be enough to dictate a change in speed. I'll soon have a 30' power
boat in my boat house that will be capable of creating a large wake and I'll
have the courtesy not to inflict that wake on others. Out in the open bay,
wakes are not a concern. But it was not just the wakes that I've found to
separate planning hull boats from the hull speed bunch, it's an attitude
thing.

That's not to say that we didn't meet some friendly courteous power boaters
(remember, I'm one too) but we sure endured a bunch of jerks too. Like the
one 40 footer that came roaring past our two sail boats as we approached the
park docks on McGregor Island (1000 Islands) sending a huge wake into all of
the boats tied up at the docks. It looked like there was only one dock
space left and he was going to have it...everyone else be damned. As it
turned out, there was another boat traveling with him that did not have
enough room to get past us or just chose not to pull the same stupid stunt
and it pulled up outside the dock area and waited. There were actually
three dock spaces left but one was in really shallow water. We took the two
slips in deeper water but after checking the depth determined that I could
move to the shallow slip if my keel was up and we did that to allow the
other boat to dock. I wonder if the 1st jerk would have extended me the
same courtesy had the roles been reversed... I really doubt it. I can
relate many more instances in the same vein but won't waste the time...you
should get the drift.

Because I live on a fairly busy waterway and I spent a lot of time out on
the water, I see boater behavior on a daily basis and I can say without
fear of contradiction that planning hull power-boaters, as a group, are by
far the most discourteous, unseamanly and environmentally unfriendly of all
boater groups. I know that PWC can be a problem in some areas but they have
been a non-issue for us and we see a lot of them. I don't believe that I
should just "get over" bad behavior on the part of any group of people and
from this point on I'll take video and turn the jerks in when it is clear
that they are breaking an established set of rules. I did exactly that to
the commercial fishermen that were using our Bayou as a dumping ground for
their old boats. After the CG and Sheriff used my video to nab a few of
them, they no longer dump their boats...at least not in this bayou. It
really ****es me off that we have instituted a tough set of rules for the
PWC in Texas and yet let the big boats do far more damage without
consequence. 600' ships produce less wake than these idiots.
Hell, I don't mind waves or wakes. My boat can handle it. I often seek out
back clouds to sail under just to get really good rail down sailing. But
not in an anchorage, narrow channel or where my boat handling will adversely
affect other boats.

It's interesting to note that the other boat that accompanied us on this
trip is captained by a highly experienced man that has done professional
sal****er boat deliveries for years. At one point during the trip he said
"I know parts of Texas and Louisiana where these jerks would be running
around with numerous .30 cal leaks at the waterline if they behaved like
this very often".

"jchaplain" wrote in message
...
Damage to the shoreline from powerboats?
Sounds like you better get over it if you're out there a lot in the
water. Wakes happen. Not that other boats shouldn't keep a distance
and slow down at times, I really agree, but you have to expect some
wakes. Just because your boat doesn't make one ( you didn't say but
I'm assuming your a sailboater,) doesn't give you the right to bitch
at every boat thats going by making one. I hate getting rocked too,
but then I realize that it's only water and wakes happen.
Live on a busy street? It's going to be noisy and busy. Want the
noise and bustle to stop? Move someplace else. Thats life guy. Don't
let it ruin the rest of the experience if you can help it.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0700, "QLW" wrote:

We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on
the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both
boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of
the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time
to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I
got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake
or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore
by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals
that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold
these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3
to
5 foot wakes.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0700, "QLW" wrote:

We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3 to
5 foot wakes.


From a different perspective, I can understand your frustration.
I frequently "small boat" (under 20'), between Erie Canal locks 6 to
9, the Hudson River, and Lake Champlain.

Ignorance and rudeness are not confined to "large" power boats, but
it's easier to deal with an ignoramus in a 16-footer.


....carry on.
noah

To email me, please remove the "FISH" from the net.

QLW wrote in message
...
We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on
the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both
boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of
the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time
to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I
got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore
by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals that
I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold
these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3
to
5 foot wakes.



Oh, please. I found far more discourteous sailboat captains during a 1500
mile voyage down the east coast and ICW than I found power boaters.

Eisboch

"jchaplain" wrote in message
...
Damage to the shoreline from powerboats?
Sounds like you better get over it if you're out there a lot in the
water. Wakes happen. Not that other boats shouldn't keep a distance
and slow down at times, I really agree, but you have to expect some
wakes.

He may be referring to the habit some boaters have of making improperly
large wakes too close to shore. You can't change the design of your boat on
a whim, but you CAN often change your distance from shore. It's not uncommon
to see morons cranking down a 2 mile wide lake, 100 feet from the shore.
This is why many lakes have laws about that. It's a matter of consideration
for other peoples' property.

If your neighbor was spray painting his garage on a day when the wind was
blowing the paint mist onto your car, would you just "live with it"? Or,
would you whomp the back of his legs with a rake to get his attention? This
is no different than the habits of some boaters.

I was wondering when this would surface in this thread. I've been victim to
both sides of this controversy so I don't believe it appropriate to blame
one group of boaters or the other.

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

OTOH
Those 35'+ trawlers making a pair of small tidal waves through a fishing
hole OUTSIDE a navigation channel are just as discourteous. What about
anglers anchored in a non speed-restricted channel? Should boaters reduce
speed to minimize their wake while navigating the channel? I see both
sides.

So please dish out the complaints accordingly.

Clarence

"

Oh, please. I found far more discourteous sailboat captains during a 1500
mile voyage down the east coast and ICW than I found power boaters.

Eisboch

Clarence Bell wrote:

I was wondering when this would surface in this thread. I've been victim to
both sides of this controversy so I don't believe it appropriate to blame
one group of boaters or the other.

One of the most common discourtesies that I see in the Chesapeake Bay is
sail boaters under power with sails up in a dead calm wind demanding the
right of way because they can only make 6 kts after they turn in front of
the "stand-on" vessel.

OTOH
Those 35'+ trawlers making a pair of small tidal waves through a fishing
hole OUTSIDE a navigation channel are just as discourteous. What about
anglers anchored in a non speed-restricted channel? Should boaters reduce
speed to minimize their wake while navigating the channel? I see both
sides.

So please dish out the complaints accordingly.

Clarence

"

Oh, please. I found far more discourteous sailboat captains during a 1500
mile voyage down the east coast and ICW than I found power boaters.

Eisboch




If you boat anywhere near Annapolis in the summer, you have to keep a
constant watch for discourteous sailboters who think nothing of running
you down if you are in their way. Or, the sailbot captains become dazed
by the heat and the inability of their crafts to move at hull speed.



--
* * *
email sent to will *never* get to me.

Throwing a large wake is not necessarily rude, discourteous or
unprofessional. Wakes are a fact of power boating and anyone who
boats in an area frequented by large, fast moving power boats needs to
be prepared for them. I don't like getting rocked any more than
anyone else, but it happens and more often than not, the power boat
throwing the wake is within his rights and is just trying to get
somewhere. The NYS barge canal for example has a speed limit of 10
mph whis is at least 30 to 40% over hull speed for most power
cruisers. The result is a fair sized wake. I will try to slow down
for canoes or other small open boats if I see them in time but it
isn't always possible. Anyone else should be prepared to deal with
the occassional wake or stay off the water. That's just the way it
is. Have you ever seen the wake that a tug boat or lake freighter
leaves when it is trying to get somewhere in a hurry?

============================================


On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:35:38 -0700, "QLW" wrote:
We just returned to Texas yesterday after completing an entire summer of
boating, first on lake Summerville in W.Va. and then a 700+ mile circuit
starting at lock 6 of the Erie Canal then to Oswego, Thousand Islands,
Redeau Canal, Ottawa River, Lachine Canal, St. Lawrance to the Richlieu
Canal, Lake Champlain and finally the Champlain Canal back to lock 6 on the
Erie. Over eight wonderful weeks spend on the water. Over 100 locks and
while the exact milage is hard to nail down (due to many side trips) I'd
guess over 900. After a few "teething" problems were worked out, both boats
worked flawlessly. The weather was great , as were the vast majority of the
people, both boaters and landlubbers, that we met. What a great way to
spend a summer. The only thing that I would change is to take more time to
make the trip. We are allredy making plans to go back and do the Trent
Severn and Lake Champlain next summer.

BUT! (there's always a but/butt) there was a recurring problem with power
boaters that just sticks in my craw everytime I think about the trip. I got
absolutely feed up with the discourtesy and poor boating skills of a high
percentage of the power boaters, both American and Canadian. I can cite
instance after instance where power craft should have slowed to no wake or
given more space and often created potentially dangerous conflicts where
none should have existed. Common courtesy seems to be left on the shore by
many/most of these jerks. It got so bad in some of the narrow canals that I
started taking video and was tempted to turn them in to the CG. I don't
know how it could be done by law, but there should be some way to hold these
( mainly 30+ foot) planning hull boats to a set of rules that will stop
them. The damage to the shoreline and the discomfort caused to other
boaters has to be just as important as the right to run around creating 3 to
5 foot wakes.