I've got a new 15 ft Pelican Explorer that just had it's first river trip...
When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG help.

I've been surfing the net, looking at different types of foam, extruded and
beaded polystyrene (styrofoam), polypropylene, etc., but I'm only coming
across manufacturers... Does anybody out there have any suggestions on
where to get the most effective (and cost-effective) foam? What seems to be
working the best?

Another side thought is that I'd like to keep the canoe as "clean" as I can
inside.... fill up the voids under the seats, some in the bow (although I'm
limited there by the foot room requirement), and a good sized block in the
stern. Any ideas on the best ways to shape the foam for a good fit? I'm
scheming on getting some of the styrofoam granules and making by own casts,
then "shrink-wrapping it before I place it and secure it.....

Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can ya
tell?

IDEAS???

Stroyer wrote:

I've got a new 15 ft Pelican Explorer that just had it's first river trip...
When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG help.

I've been surfing the net, looking at different types of foam, extruded and
beaded polystyrene (styrofoam), polypropylene, etc., but I'm only coming
across manufacturers... Does anybody out there have any suggestions on
where to get the most effective (and cost-effective) foam? What seems to be
working the best?

Another side thought is that I'd like to keep the canoe as "clean" as I can
inside.... fill up the voids under the seats, some in the bow (although I'm
limited there by the foot room requirement), and a good sized block in the
stern. Any ideas on the best ways to shape the foam for a good fit? I'm
scheming on getting some of the styrofoam granules and making by own casts,
then "shrink-wrapping it before I place it and secure it.....

Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can ya
tell?

IDEAS???




Some limitations here. First, only 15'. I would not consider the spaces
under the seats as "voids," since if one in on one's knees, putting the
rump against the seat & tucking the feet under is a natural way to gain
support while lowering the center of gravity. Perhaps some foam block
attatched under the seat but allowing room for heels & ankles. But hat
would increase the risk of entanglement should a capsize occur. My 20'
Tripper has wedge-shaped flotation chambers in bow & stern. These are
made with a 4-5" screw-out insert so not only is there sufficient
bouancy to keep the canoe afloat, even when a 50# outboard is added,,
but the chambers are a nifty place for shoes, socks, wallets, cameras,
etc. (so long as they're not overcrammed. These chambers are easy to
install. The company that makes them will sell only through established
boating & sporting goods dealers. Maybe the dealers in your area know of
these flotatio chambers.

Yours in the north Maine woods,
Pete Hilton aka The Ent

--
Second-ratedness, unfailing law of:
Never be the first to try anything.
anon.

"Stroyer" wrote in message ...
I've got a new 15 ft Pelican Explorer that just had it's first river trip...
When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG help.

I've been surfing the net, looking at different types of foam, extruded and
beaded polystyrene (styrofoam), polypropylene, etc., but I'm only coming
across manufacturers... Does anybody out there have any suggestions on
where to get the most effective (and cost-effective) foam? What seems to be
working the best?

Another side thought is that I'd like to keep the canoe as "clean" as I can
inside.... fill up the voids under the seats, some in the bow (although I'm
limited there by the foot room requirement), and a good sized block in the
stern. Any ideas on the best ways to shape the foam for a good fit? I'm
scheming on getting some of the styrofoam granules and making by own casts,
then "shrink-wrapping it before I place it and secure it.....

Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can ya
tell?

IDEAS???

Foam floatation is an obsolete concept. Google on Voyager (or maybe
it's Voyageur), Dagger, Outfitting By Mikey, or Nantahala Outdoor
Center to find a source of inflatable floatation. Drill 1/8" holes 8"
apart just below the gunwhales to lace utility cord through, to make a
cage or web to lash in the airbags, and then tie the corner grommets
to thwarts or to little u-brackets screwed into the thwarts.

If yer squeamish about drilling holes in the hull, you can, instead,
use the u-brackets at 8" intervals on the undersides of the inwhales.

If you post this question on Paddle Prattle, the discussion board of
the Monocacy Canoe Club, at
http://www.monocacycanoe.org/mccboard/mccboard.html, Mike McCrae will
probably reply, and tell you in which back issue of Canoe & Kayak you
can find his article on anchoring strips of webbing to the inwhales.
These webbing strips, in turn, are used to anchor the floatation
lashings.

An advantage of the inflatable-floatation/U-bracket-or-webbing-anchor
approach is that it's flexible, so you can reconfigure for solo or
tandem paddling, for carrying expedition gear, etc.

--
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty

================================================== ====================
Richard Hopley, Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net 1-301-775-0471
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll.
rhople[at]wfubmc[dot]edu 1-336-713-5077
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters.
================================================== ====================

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:21:00 -0500, "Stroyer"
wrote:


When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG help.

I've been surfing the net, looking at different types of foam, extruded and
beaded polystyrene (styrofoam), polypropylene, etc., but I'm only coming
across manufacturers...

Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can ya

Well Mr physicist a cub meter of foam is say 25kg a cub M of air is ?
you tell me

How about air bags?

Thank you

John O'Connell

Wood burning camp stoves
www.occuk.co.uk/outdoor

(Oci-One Kanubi) wrote in message

If you post this question on Paddle Prattle, the discussion board of
the Monocacy Canoe Club, at
http://www.monocacycanoe.org/mccboard/mccboard.html, Mike McCrae will
probably reply, and tell you in which back issue of Canoe & Kayak you
can find his article on anchoring strips of webbing to the inwhales.
These webbing strips, in turn, are used to anchor the floatation
lashings.

No need to post to the MCC board. Here is a system for using short
piece of webbing pop riveted beneath the gunwales that is equally
useful for tying in flotation bags or gear. BTW, OCI-One is right (no
surprise there); buy a center flotation bag and discard the idea of
DIY'ing foam flotation.

Canoe Floatation Bag and Gear Restraint System
(An alternative to the traditional drill-&-lace method for canoes with
vinyl gunwales)

The traditional lacing method for floatation bags involves drilling a
series of holes through the hull beneath the gunwales and laboriously
threading a line through these holes. Not a bad system, provided you
don't mind drill lots of little holes in the hull of your canoe and
you don't intend to carry anything in the canoe except those same
floatbags, trip after trip.

The webbing loop alternative

For canoes that may see multiple uses - whitewater day paddling one
weekend, downriver tripping the next - a more functional alternative
to the drill-&-lace method is to install webbing loops to the
underside of the gunwales.

A simple loop of one inch wide webbing, protruding from under the
gunwale, will make it easy to lace in and remove float bags, tripping
gear or some combination of both.

First, determine how many webbing loops you will want to install;
since you can easily tie and untie through these loops, and can use
these loops for a variety of gear and float bag combinations, think
more loops rather than fewer. A loop every six inches or so works well
for most applications.

Preparing the loops

Each loop will be made from a four-inch long piece of webbing, so
purchase a length of one inch wide webbing sufficient to make up all
the loops needed. Cut the webbing into four-inch long pieces and flame
the ends over a candle so that the cut ends don't frazzle.

Fold each four inch piece over into a closed-U shape (so that the cut
ends can be pressed flat together) and glue the last half inch of
webbing together. An expanding polyurethane glue, such as Pro-Bond
Polyurethane, will work best. Clamp the glued ends together and set
the loops aside until the glue has set.

Once the glue has set remove the clamps and drill a 3/16-inch hole
through the glued end. The stiff, expanded glue will prevent the
webbing from wrapping around the drill and make it easy to drill a
nice clean hole. Stick a 3/16 x 1/4 pop rivet through the hole on each
webbing loop.

If you own a torch an easier alternative to gluing and drilling is to
simply heat the tip of an awl with the torch and make the 3/16" hole
in the webbing with the hot awl.

Installing the loops

Place the canoe, gunwales down, on a set of sawhorses or some other
platform that will enable you to work comfortably from beneath the
canoe. Mark the locations on the gunwale where you want to install
each loop. Slip under the canoe and drill a 3/16-inch hole through the
underside of the gunwale, taking care not to drill out through the top
of the gunwale. Pop rivet the webbing loop into place. Drill your next
hole, pop rivet the next loop. Repeat as necessary.

Admiring your work

Once the last tie down loop is pop riveted in place flip the canoe
over. Nice job! You are now free to tie down floatation bags, camping
gear, unruly bowmen...whatever floats your boat.

"Stroyer" wrote:
I've got a new 15 ft Pelican Explorer that just had it's first river trip...

Hry, I have the same model, although I basically use mine for lakes!

When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG help.

I've discovered that myself (thanks to my idiot friend Roger)...
remember to tie a bailer (such as a plasitic milk jug with the
cap on and the bottom sliced off) to use when you do get it
flipped it over the right way. As for your flotation problems...
have you tried empty two-liter soda pop bottles?


Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can ya
tell?

A physicist, eh? Do you know my buddy Dr. Robert "Bob" Park?


IDEAS???

1.25 kg.... I get the picture.... just that I hadn't seen a lot of air bag /
chambers out there when I wrote the first note... Thanks for the kick in the
seat of the pants... I needed that.... maybe what you're saying is ... they
THINK!

:-) I'm getting a lot of good ideas here...

"occ" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:21:00 -0500, "Stroyer"
wrote:


When it's full of water and there's no shorline, it's a real bear to get
upright and emptied. Some additional floatation would have been a BIG
help.

I've been surfing the net, looking at different types of foam, extruded
and
beaded polystyrene (styrofoam), polypropylene, etc., but I'm only coming
across manufacturers...

Yes, I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not an engineer... I'm a physicist.... can
ya

Well Mr physicist a cub meter of foam is say 25kg a cub M of air is ?
you tell me

How about air bags?

Thank you

John O'Connell

Wood burning camp stoves
www.occuk.co.uk/outdoor

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:48:53 -0500, in rec.boats.paddle you wrote:

Of course, it's been 15 years since I've
canoed, and the short shot of Class III was a bit much for this one... not
really a white water canoe,

That's something I really agree with! Yeah, the "Explorer" is tough and nigh
unsinkable, but it's also too wide and flat-bottomed to be a good whitewater
boat!

but we had enough water and almost made it (make
sure you don't have a U-boat commander in the bow when you go over the
drops... gotta get the weight out of the bow!) hahaha... We came out of the
hydraulics with me a foot out of the water and the commander about chest
deep..... it wasn't looking good!

It sounds... er, "memorable".