On Jun 14, 11:01*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:
But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. *The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working. *

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

3% propane in air (by volume) is explosive. Think about that when you
think of the size of your bilge and consider that concentration can
rise quickly becaus eof the density of the propane. Then consider
that when it explodes the gas then takes up 270X the volume of the
previous air/propane mixture and you can see it can make a big
explosion for a small amount of propane. A small leaking cylinder is
a major safety hazard requiring immediate action. Even a few minutes
of a leaking cylinder can turn your boat into a bomb. By volume
propane is more explosive than gasoline and is explosive over a wider
range of concentration so is more dangerous than gasoline vapor.
You may not want to admit I am right but if thinking about it keeps
you from storing a canister on your boat then I am happy.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

On Jun 14, 11:01 pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:
But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

3% propane in air (by volume) is explosive. Think about that when you
think of the size of your bilge and consider that concentration can
rise quickly becaus eof the density of the propane. Then consider
that when it explodes the gas then takes up 270X the volume of the
previous air/propane mixture and you can see it can make a big
explosion for a small amount of propane. A small leaking cylinder is
a major safety hazard requiring immediate action. Even a few minutes
of a leaking cylinder can turn your boat into a bomb. By volume
propane is more explosive than gasoline and is explosive over a wider
range of concentration so is more dangerous than gasoline vapor.
You may not want to admit I am right but if thinking about it keeps
you from storing a canister on your boat then I am happy.


Reply:
For those who think a 16 oz. container is not much, think how much you can
cook on a 2 burner Coleman stove with just one canister. Or how long a
propane lantern sheds light for with a single cartridge.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:54:31 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jun 14, 10:28*pm, North Star wrote:
On Jun 14, 11:24*pm, wrote:



On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:10:49 -0700 (PDT), North Star

wrote:
On Jun 14, 5:22*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 14, 4:12*pm, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:38*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:07:16 -0400, iBoat wrote:
In article 4789ce48-54a7-4d7a-8dc5-
,
says...

On Jun 14, 2:30 pm, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:08:51 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jun 14, 1:05 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:04:40 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Thinking about my wayward dinghy caused me to remember another
wandering object on one of my recent Bahamas trips.
I had finished cooking on the magma grill (spoiled crew demanded warm
mac and cheese) and tried removing the 3/4 full propane canister.
Once removed, it was leaking propane, uh oh. No way this thing is
staying aboard. I cannot leave it on the grill cuz it is choppy and
the grill has to be stowed. After considering various options, I
decided littering was the safest one so I simply threw it overboard
and settled down to do some reading. A bit later, "Thunk, Thunk,
WTF?", I go outside and look down and there's the canister bumping on
the hull so I fished it out with the crab net.
This time, I really heave it far away and go to bed. Yeah, you
guessed right, middle of the night, "Thunk, Thunk", tide had carried
it right back to me.
Realizing I'm gonna have to get serious about this, I pull out the
tide tables and turn on a light eliciting lots of complaints from
sleeping crew but I find the tide will be running out in an hour. So,
I wait up till then and finally get rid of the canister but never did
get back to sleep waiting for the "Thunk, Thunk" again.

Why didn't you just slowly open it up down wind, let it empty, then
tie it up outside overnight?

No wind.

Seems like there would be something. None at all? All night? How about
tying a weight to it and the boat, then opening the valve... it would
sink down current of your boat, bubble along, then you could pull it
back in. I thought boaters were all about creative thinking?

Yeah, take all night to come up with a scheme to get rid of a little
propane gas...... brilliant.

Progressive "thinkers".. How much weight do you suppose it would take to
sink a half full tank? snerk...

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

People on the west coast have no idea how glassy still the Gulf of
Mexico can get. *When holding a leaking canister aboard a boat, time
is critical lest the heavy propane get in your bilge. *Even holding it
over the side leaking could be dangerous. *In this case, safety takes
precedence over not littering.

Let alone the fact that it's heavier than air and will fill a boat cabin
in a heartbeat.

Wow... you guys call yourselves sailors? How about closing up the
boat. Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you gas up? Sheesh...
and I don't know diddly about boats.

Good Gawd, don't be so anal y'all. *I take the grill off the stern
rail because if there is any chop it could fall overboard. *It was a
very still night but chop can happen in a few minutes.
Getting the canister below surface would not stop it from leaking near
my boat and propane could get aboard. *Safety requires you get rid of
it ASAP. *Sinking it even "just below the surface" would require
several pounds of weight and unless I want to sacrifice some wrenches,
I cannot think of anything that would sink it and as I just pointed
out, sinking it does not stop it from leaking. *BTW, physics says
enough to sink it "just below the surface" is the same as "all the way
to the bottom" at least in shallow water.
Hazard to navigation? *WHAT? *In a few hours, it will be empty and you
think a small propane canister is a hazard to nav? *Be serious.

I don't consider it boating, more like cave diving, far too risky, but
they sell hundred mile per hour boats. You would hit with four hundred
times the impact energy at 100 as you would at 5, with, say, a
sailboat. Such a boat might be badly, even fatally, damaged. Less
farfetched, I would not care to pay the possible repairs to the
sterndrive on my starcraft.

Casady

If yer worried about a 16 oz canister, are you more worried about the
logs floating around out there from the rivers?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

16 oz canister??
I envisioned a 10 lb propane tank...... the kind we carried on my
buddy's Mirage 33.

That's the normal size, right? The kind people connect to their stove?
That's what I was originally thinking he had, but no, it's some tiny
container for little bbq.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Normal home BBQ's use the 20 lb size.
You might see the smaller 10s on small tent trailers or older
sailboats.

MY god, do any of you ever see accident reports? A 16 oz propane
container has enough explosive potential to sink a large boat. You
can make quite an explosion by putting a few seconds worth of the
propane in a bag and igniting it. YES, I truly do mean the coleman
stove size canisters.
I also know from experience that a few mg of calcium carbide in water
will produce a mega explosion if the acetylene is allowed to
accumulate. Propane is almost as dangerous. Clearly none of you has
any experience with fuel air explosions. The amount of ignorance
exhibited here is astonishing and dangerous. All you have to do is
google propane boat accidents to see.

Come on. This has nothing to do with the scenario you described... a
slow leak from a 16oz container, with no ability to concentrate fumes.
You're going to tell us that propane, a heavier than air gas, is going
to run back up the current, then back up the sides of your boat.. what
3 feet off the water? Then, get below and go boom.

On which planet do you sail.. Jupiter?

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:01:38 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:

But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

I believe you. I also believe that Frogman couldn't deal with a simple
problem. I don't think it takes years of experience to solve something
like this. I offered a couple of solutions in the space of 10 minutes,
all of which would work. He panicked as far as I can tell, and threw
stuff in the water "hoping" it wasn't going to go thump thump again.
It kept him up? What a joke.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:34:25 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jun 14, 11:01*pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:
But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. *The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working. *

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

3% propane in air (by volume) is explosive. Think about that when you
think of the size of your bilge and consider that concentration can
rise quickly becaus eof the density of the propane. Then consider
that when it explodes the gas then takes up 270X the volume of the
previous air/propane mixture and you can see it can make a big
explosion for a small amount of propane. A small leaking cylinder is
a major safety hazard requiring immediate action. Even a few minutes
of a leaking cylinder can turn your boat into a bomb. By volume
propane is more explosive than gasoline and is explosive over a wider
range of concentration so is more dangerous than gasoline vapor.
You may not want to admit I am right but if thinking about it keeps
you from storing a canister on your boat then I am happy.

How is said propane supposed to get in your bilge from below the water
and down current? I'm still waiting for your answer. If it's so
deadly, why did you worry about it coming back up current after you
tossed it?

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:38:13 -0700, "Califbill"
wrote:

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...

On Jun 14, 11:01 pm, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:
But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

3% propane in air (by volume) is explosive. Think about that when you
think of the size of your bilge and consider that concentration can
rise quickly becaus eof the density of the propane. Then consider
that when it explodes the gas then takes up 270X the volume of the
previous air/propane mixture and you can see it can make a big
explosion for a small amount of propane. A small leaking cylinder is
a major safety hazard requiring immediate action. Even a few minutes
of a leaking cylinder can turn your boat into a bomb. By volume
propane is more explosive than gasoline and is explosive over a wider
range of concentration so is more dangerous than gasoline vapor.
You may not want to admit I am right but if thinking about it keeps
you from storing a canister on your boat then I am happy.


Reply:
For those who think a 16 oz. container is not much, think how much you can
cook on a 2 burner Coleman stove with just one canister. Or how long a
propane lantern sheds light for with a single cartridge.

And, think about how long it'll last if the valve is open in 10 feet
of water.. 5 minutes maybe? I'm still waiting for him to justify his
inane response to a simple problem.

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:

But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.

Plum is just trolling. Look how many answers she has gotten just by
calling the same name over and over again.... dumb...

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

On 6/14/11 11:01 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:

But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.


Spending most of one's time on a boat fixing what lack of proper
maintenance caused is fun for some people, I guess. If you are retired
and therefore your time isn't valuable, wasting a lot of it trying to
get a generator, engine, refrigeration unit, transmission, et cetera,
working may be part of "international cruising," as you say, and which
means I'd never enjoy being an "international cruiser."

Whatever floats your boat.



--
Want to discuss recreational boating and fishing in a forum where
personal insults are not allowed?

http://groups.google.com/group/rec-boating-fishing

In article e77977dd-c6cb-432b-9cd3-e5260b7dd08f@
36g2000yqj.googlegroups.com, says...

On Jun 14, 5:22*pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 14, 4:12*pm, Richard Casady
wrote:





On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:49:49 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:38*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:07:16 -0400, iBoat wrote:
In article 4789ce48-54a7-4d7a-8dc5-
,
says...

On Jun 14, 2:30 pm, I_am_Tosk wrote:
In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:08:51 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Jun 14, 1:05 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:04:40 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch

wrote:
Thinking about my wayward dinghy caused me to remember another
wandering object on one of my recent Bahamas trips.
I had finished cooking on the magma grill (spoiled crew demanded warm
mac and cheese) and tried removing the 3/4 full propane canister.
Once removed, it was leaking propane, uh oh. No way this thing is
staying aboard. I cannot leave it on the grill cuz it is choppy and
the grill has to be stowed. After considering various options, I
decided littering was the safest one so I simply threw it overboard
and settled down to do some reading. A bit later, "Thunk, Thunk,
WTF?", I go outside and look down and there's the canister bumping on
the hull so I fished it out with the crab net.
This time, I really heave it far away and go to bed. Yeah, you
guessed right, middle of the night, "Thunk, Thunk", tide had carried
it right back to me.
Realizing I'm gonna have to get serious about this, I pull out the
tide tables and turn on a light eliciting lots of complaints from
sleeping crew but I find the tide will be running out in an hour. So,
I wait up till then and finally get rid of the canister but never did
get back to sleep waiting for the "Thunk, Thunk" again.

Why didn't you just slowly open it up down wind, let it empty, then
tie it up outside overnight?

No wind.

Seems like there would be something. None at all? All night? How about
tying a weight to it and the boat, then opening the valve... it would
sink down current of your boat, bubble along, then you could pull it
back in. I thought boaters were all about creative thinking?

Yeah, take all night to come up with a scheme to get rid of a little
propane gas...... brilliant.

Progressive "thinkers".. How much weight do you suppose it would take to
sink a half full tank? snerk...

--
Team Rowdy Mouse, Banned from the Mall for life!

People on the west coast have no idea how glassy still the Gulf of
Mexico can get. *When holding a leaking canister aboard a boat, time
is critical lest the heavy propane get in your bilge. *Even holding it
over the side leaking could be dangerous. *In this case, safety takes
precedence over not littering.

Let alone the fact that it's heavier than air and will fill a boat cabin
in a heartbeat.

Wow... you guys call yourselves sailors? How about closing up the
boat. Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you gas up? Sheesh...
and I don't know diddly about boats.

Good Gawd, don't be so anal y'all. *I take the grill off the stern
rail because if there is any chop it could fall overboard. *It was a
very still night but chop can happen in a few minutes.
Getting the canister below surface would not stop it from leaking near
my boat and propane could get aboard. *Safety requires you get rid of
it ASAP. *Sinking it even "just below the surface" would require
several pounds of weight and unless I want to sacrifice some wrenches,
I cannot think of anything that would sink it and as I just pointed
out, sinking it does not stop it from leaking. *BTW, physics says
enough to sink it "just below the surface" is the same as "all the way
to the bottom" at least in shallow water.
Hazard to navigation? *WHAT? *In a few hours, it will be empty and you
think a small propane canister is a hazard to nav? *Be serious.

I don't consider it boating, more like cave diving, far too risky, but
they sell hundred mile per hour boats. You would hit with four hundred
times the impact energy at 100 as you would at 5, with, say, a
sailboat. Such a boat might be badly, even fatally, damaged. Less
farfetched, I would not care to pay the possible repairs to the
sterndrive on my starcraft.

Casady

If yer worried about a 16 oz canister, are you more worried about the
logs floating around out there from the rivers?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

16 oz canister??
I envisioned a 10 lb propane tank...... the kind we carried on my
buddy's Mirage 33.

That's because you are stupid. Go back to Harry's great new group and
stay there.

In article ,
says...

On 6/14/11 11:01 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:26:59 -0700, wrote:

But he's out cruising the Bahamas so he's doing something right.

Yes, that's laudable, but he also doesn't appear to completely have
his sh*t together either.

Fixing things with what you have on hand and dealing with the
unexpected are all part of international cruising, sometimes a big
part. The big mega yacht cruisers are maintained to a very high
degree of reliability but they generally have an engineer in the crew
and a big supply of spares on hand to keep things working.

Since we bought the trawler 7 years ago I've learned enough new
skills, and acquired the tools, to be a junior tradesman in 3 or 4
different fields.


Spending most of one's time on a boat fixing what lack of proper
maintenance caused is fun for some people, I guess. If you are retired
and therefore your time isn't valuable, wasting a lot of it trying to
get a generator, engine, refrigeration unit, transmission, et cetera,
working may be part of "international cruising," as you say, and which
means I'd never enjoy being an "international cruiser."

Whatever floats your boat.

Who gives a **** what YOU would or would not enjoy? Go back to your own
fantastic group.