Hello - I have had a Perception Prism (a sit-on-top) for a few years and
want to get something in a composite. I've looked at several sit-ins, but
saw an article that said SOTs were the best for expedition since they are
inherently safer. This was due to the fact that they can't swamp and you
can easily re-enter. What's the deal? There are so many more sit-ins than
SOTs. Any comments or ideas?

thanks,

John

I've looked at several sit-ins, but
saw an article that said SOTs were the best for expedition since they are
inherently safer.

I would be interested in knowing the source of that information. I have never
heard of anyone doing an "expedition" using a SOT but plenty in decked boats.

Find the local kayak club and talk to some paddlers. I have paddled the prism
and I think you will enjoy a decked, composite boat a lot more.

Brian Blankinship

OK. First, I don't have a dog in this fight, but here are some references.
First, I quote:
"When I first considered the idea of circling Vancouver Island, I looked at
rowing. I had spent years as a white-water guide rowing rafts and river
dories, and I had friends who had rowed enormous distances in open water.
But I didn't want to be sitting backward. At least on the river you're
facing forward as the current carries you. That left kayaks, but I was not
sold on the conventional style. We live in the San Juans and are frequently
reading or hearing about yet another kayak rescue (or worse), all of them in
traditional boats.
I had paddled standard kayaks before. I knew a guy could get proficient in
one, roll semi-reliably, and get a confidant handle on float assisted
self-rescues, but the impression I had, then and now, was that the element
of probability for failure when you were cold and numb and more than a
little stressed, was just not acceptable. Period.

I had a good friend, Steve Braun, a very experienced kayaker and swimmer,
die here in local waters in a conventional style of boat. Have a look at
George Gronseth's book: Deep Trouble, a collection of sea kayaking mishaps,
fatal or near-tragic, none of which involved an open style of boat. When I
discovered the open style of kayak, the bump on a log concept, it made good
sense.

The boats we use are all open kayak, and more reminiscent of a surfboard
than a conventional kayak in many respects. We use the best, Kevlar, long
distance, open, or sit-on-top (if you prefer), kayaks. These things are
amazing. They have scuppers or drain holes, built through the hull and they'
re open on top. If you happen to spill, you flip the boat back upright and
seal-flop aboard. The water drains within seconds through the holes and you'
re ready to go"

End quote. From http://www.lyonexpeditions.com/equipment.html

Another:
"Equipping the Open Kayak Journey
The open kayak is the ideal coastal tourer. Self-rescue is a snap and the
larger boats are big enough to haul the sink. While the typical open kayak
is wider and more stable than a conventional style boat, touring models in
production and on the drawing boards these days have a slimmer, longer
waterline and a commensurately satisfying scoot. These babies are truly the
Macintosh of kayaks, way user friendly and embodying most of the better
features of a conventional kayak without the nagging liabilities" From
http://www.wetdawg.com/pages/lyons_5.html

End Quote



OK, now I see that these are from the same guy, different article.
Still....
--
John

"Blankibr" wrote in message
...
I've looked at several sit-ins, but
saw an article that said SOTs were the best for expedition since they are
inherently safer.

I would be interested in knowing the source of that information. I have
never
heard of anyone doing an "expedition" using a SOT but plenty in decked
boats.

Find the local kayak club and talk to some paddlers. I have paddled the
prism
and I think you will enjoy a decked, composite boat a lot more.

Brian Blankinship

My surf boat is a SOT so I know the value of the design, but my point was I
would not use one for expedition.

Maybe I have fallen too far from my backpacker roots, but I need (or at least
want) to carry more than even the Prism will hold when going on trips of a week
or more.

I have read my autographed copy of the Broze/Gronseth edited Deep Trouble, but
other than in surf I prefer a decked boat.

YMMV
Brian Blankinship

jal wrote:

OK, now I see that these are from the same guy, different article.

Exactly. You have one person's opinion. Now look at what the
overwhelming majority of people who do expeditions are paddling. They're
using sit-in kayaks, which should tell you something.

The whole re-entry thing is a red herring. With good bracing skills,
capsizes are not much of an issue and sit-in boats are typically much
better than SOT's when dealing with the steep waves that cause capsizes.
Wide boats cannot be leaned into waves effectively and are prone to
being thrown over. Learn to roll and re-entries become largely a
non-issue. Paddle with other skilled paddlers and even if you do come
out, you can be back in the boat in less than a minute (yes, we practice
this and it's easily done). Sit-in boats also do a far better job of
protecting the paddler from the elements. They keep you drier, which can
be critical to comfort on long trips.

There are good reasons why sit-in boats are preferred by most sea
kayakers. There is no such thing as an "inherently safer" boat, only
safer paddlers.

I am not sure that sots are safer. When somebody tells me a boat is safer
I always ask "safer under what conditions?"
If I lived in a warm climate I would use an sot, here in the northwest having
the lower half of my body exposed to wind and spray would chill me most of the
year. this is not a small concern, even on a cloudy summer day one could get
dangerously cold if the his whole body was wet and exposed to the wind.
Until recently there were two types of SOTs; plastic ones that were slow and
dorky (but fun) or high performance surf skis, neither of these typesseemed to
carry as much camping gear as a conventional kayak. Some makers now seem to be
making SOTs that are more like conventional kayaks.
I am not sure why you think a convetional kayak is less safe. While its true
that you might be able to hop back in a SOT you will still be in the same
conditions of wind and wave that caused you to dump in the first place. I
think that you will find that a regular kayak, with watertight compartments at
BOTH ends does not get very swamped when capsized.
Finaly, the unknown safety factor; speed.
The sots I have paddled( I certainly don't know them all) have all been slower
than most regular kayaks. Most people under estimate the importance of this.
Speed is not everything but a fast kayak gets home before the storm breaks, and
spends less time in rough conditions because you can get off the water faster.
Just my experience, for what it's worth.



I have had a Perception Prism (a sit-on-top) for a few years and
want to get something in a composite. I've looked at several sit-ins, but
saw an article that said SOTs were the best for expedition since they are
inherently safer. This was due to the fact that they can't swamp and you
can easily re-enter. What's the deal? There are so many more sit-ins than
SOTs. Any comments or ideas?

thanks,

John

Thanks for all the replys. I decided to get a sit-in, a QCC.

john