"Wayne B" wrote in message
...


Hey, there you are. Didn't see any other posts from you and was thinking
about your voyage south.
Hope you found a safe harbor and a strong mooring.

Rock and roll. Kinda miss it.

Eisboch

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"X ~ Man" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...471223268.html

This **** is getting old.

Do you think we should be able to rape the environment and pollute at
will? Have you seen how the rain forests are decimated and will never
return to what they were? What about poisons in your drinking water, are
you okay with that?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Harry, (assuming your *are* Harry)

The USA signed the International CITES agreement in 1973 that is designed to
protect overharvested and therefore
endangered species ... most wood. Since then only the protected wood that
was harvested before 1969 or thereabouts
can be used. It's not just guitars. It's furniture, picture frames...
etc.

In 2008, the US Fish and Wildlife Service unilaterally decided to expand
the interpretation and enforcement to cover
virtually anything that was once alive. This is includes abalone inlays in
guitars, more wood species (as they
deem fit) and, of course, anything else that was once alive. It's a little
bit carried away because much that they are
"protecting" isn't any where near being endangered.

The amount of material used in guitars is minor compared to furniture and
other products. Problem with guitars
is that if you happen to travel out of the country with your beautiful and
favorite Martin D-35 that happens to have
some abalone in it's rosette or headstock inlay and then try to return ...
it may be confiscated and destroyed.

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.

Eisboch

Perhaps, perhaps not. They had a history of violations, apparently. It
will likely be sorted out in court don't you think?

As to degree, imagine what happens to someone who smuggles in an
exotic bird. It's just one bird, but how many had to be caught for
that to happen.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 14:45:36 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

On Aug 27, 5:36*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 16:14:10 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:



On 8/27/11 2:55 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 27/08/2011 12:32 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 8/27/11 2:29 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 27/08/2011 10:14 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 8/27/11 12:05 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 06:16:34 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Sounds like the Obama admin is taking it's business que from the
Middle
East. This is kind of like the "flash mobs" robbing retailers in the
city... Yep, I am sure plenty of them will be "lost" as you said...

I've seen the vids on the 'flash mobs' amazing how they can storm in
and pick a convenience store clean and nothing, or little can be done
about it....

===

Inner city stores have been dealing with issues like this for a long
time. Many end up installing electric locks on the front door so
everyone has to be buzzed in one at a time.

In the corporate world, of course, the crooked bankers, brokers and
corporate execs don't need to be buzzed in to steal your money...you
entrust it to them.

Idiots like you who mindlessly vote are the problem here. When was the
last time you voted with integrity and honor over color and party?

Canuckles thinks McCain and Palin represented integrity and
honor...snerk...

There in is your problem. You don't understand integrity and honor as
you have none yourself.

Canuckles thinks McCain and Palin represented something beyond senility
and self-promotion.

He would be right. They represent everything that is wrong with morons
in public service.

We now know that the reason they were raided is because Gibson
contributes to Repubs. Martin Guitars uses the exact same wood but
contributes to Dems and did not get raided.
http://landmarkreport.com/andrew/201...ublican-donor/
What did you expect from the Obamunists.

No, you "know" this, much like you know that Obama was actually born
in Kenya.

Feel free to vote for Palin. She's about your speed intellectually.

wrote in message ...

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"X ~ Man" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...471223268.html

This **** is getting old.

Do you think we should be able to rape the environment and pollute at
will? Have you seen how the rain forests are decimated and will never
return to what they were? What about poisons in your drinking water, are
you okay with that?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Harry, (assuming your *are* Harry)

The USA signed the International CITES agreement in 1973 that is designed
to
protect overharvested and therefore
endangered species ... most wood. Since then only the protected wood that
was harvested before 1969 or thereabouts
can be used. It's not just guitars. It's furniture, picture frames...
etc.

In 2008, the US Fish and Wildlife Service unilaterally decided to expand
the interpretation and enforcement to cover
virtually anything that was once alive. This is includes abalone inlays
in
guitars, more wood species (as they
deem fit) and, of course, anything else that was once alive. It's a
little
bit carried away because much that they are
"protecting" isn't any where near being endangered.

The amount of material used in guitars is minor compared to furniture and
other products. Problem with guitars
is that if you happen to travel out of the country with your beautiful and
favorite Martin D-35 that happens to have
some abalone in it's rosette or headstock inlay and then try to return ...
it may be confiscated and destroyed.

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.

Eisboch

Perhaps, perhaps not. They had a history of violations, apparently. It
will likely be sorted out in court don't you think?

As to degree, imagine what happens to someone who smuggles in an
exotic bird. It's just one bird, but how many had to be caught for
that to happen.

-------------------------------------------------------

My bet is that Gibson will produce all the necessary CITES certifications to
prove that the materials they were using were perfectly legal.
Same thing that happened in the last raid, as I understand it. It's legal
to use Ivory for example as long as it was purchased from a
particular, approved source.

My problem with all this is that there are millions of private citizen
guitar owners who could have their expensive instruments confiscated because
they are not aware that they must prove that the materials used were legally
obtained and used. I have a custom built 12 string guitar made of
legally obtained Brazilian Rosewood ... but I don't have the certs to prove
it. Very few people do.

Some common sense is required.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.

==========

That's a classic "big government" problem with everyone trying to
justify the importance of their job, no matter how ridiculous the
outcome.

On 8/27/2011 8:00 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ~ Man" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...471223268.html


This **** is getting old.

Do you think we should be able to rape the environment and pollute at
will? Have you seen how the rain forests are decimated and will never
return to what they were? What about poisons in your drinking water, are
you okay with that?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Harry, (assuming your *are* Harry)

The USA signed the International CITES agreement in 1973 that is
designed to protect overharvested and therefore
endangered species ... most wood. Since then only the protected wood
that was harvested before 1969 or thereabouts
can be used. It's not just guitars. It's furniture, picture frames... etc.

In 2008, the US Fish and Wildlife Service unilaterally decided to expand
the interpretation and enforcement to cover
virtually anything that was once alive. This is includes abalone inlays
in guitars, more wood species (as they
deem fit) and, of course, anything else that was once alive. It's a
little bit carried away because much that they are
"protecting" isn't any where near being endangered.

The amount of material used in guitars is minor compared to furniture
and other products. Problem with guitars
is that if you happen to travel out of the country with your beautiful
and favorite Martin D-35 that happens to have
some abalone in it's rosette or headstock inlay and then try to return
... it may be confiscated and destroyed.

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges
are getting a little carried away.

Eisboch

Turns out it's just a continuation of "elections have concequences"...

We now know that the reason they were raided is because Gibson
contributes to Repubs. Martin Guitars uses the exact same wood but
contributes to Dems and did not get raided.
http://landmarkreport.com/andrew/201...ublican-donor/
What did you expect from the Obamunists.

Politics as usual...

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:43:48 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



wrote in message ...

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"X ~ Man" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...471223268.html

This **** is getting old.

Do you think we should be able to rape the environment and pollute at
will? Have you seen how the rain forests are decimated and will never
return to what they were? What about poisons in your drinking water, are
you okay with that?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Harry, (assuming your *are* Harry)

The USA signed the International CITES agreement in 1973 that is designed
to
protect overharvested and therefore
endangered species ... most wood. Since then only the protected wood that
was harvested before 1969 or thereabouts
can be used. It's not just guitars. It's furniture, picture frames...
etc.

In 2008, the US Fish and Wildlife Service unilaterally decided to expand
the interpretation and enforcement to cover
virtually anything that was once alive. This is includes abalone inlays
in
guitars, more wood species (as they
deem fit) and, of course, anything else that was once alive. It's a
little
bit carried away because much that they are
"protecting" isn't any where near being endangered.

The amount of material used in guitars is minor compared to furniture and
other products. Problem with guitars
is that if you happen to travel out of the country with your beautiful and
favorite Martin D-35 that happens to have
some abalone in it's rosette or headstock inlay and then try to return ...
it may be confiscated and destroyed.

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.

Eisboch

Perhaps, perhaps not. They had a history of violations, apparently. It
will likely be sorted out in court don't you think?

As to degree, imagine what happens to someone who smuggles in an
exotic bird. It's just one bird, but how many had to be caught for
that to happen.

-------------------------------------------------------

My bet is that Gibson will produce all the necessary CITES certifications to
prove that the materials they were using were perfectly legal.
Same thing that happened in the last raid, as I understand it. It's legal
to use Ivory for example as long as it was purchased from a
particular, approved source.

My problem with all this is that there are millions of private citizen
guitar owners who could have their expensive instruments confiscated because
they are not aware that they must prove that the materials used were legally
obtained and used. I have a custom built 12 string guitar made of
legally obtained Brazilian Rosewood ... but I don't have the certs to prove
it. Very few people do.

Some common sense is required.


Millions? That seems like an exaggeration. Are there really that many
Gibson guitars out there or even other makes that are really
expensive? How many travel outside the country? I doubt it's millions
or anything close.

I don't believe the 2009 court action has concluded. If they can prove
the material is legal, they should be able to recover damages.

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 21:18:34 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.

==========

That's a classic "big government" problem with everyone trying to
justify the importance of their job, no matter how ridiculous the
outcome.

Basically, you're unwilling to look at the larger issue.

wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 21:18:34 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:00:14 -0400, wrote:

Protecting endangered species is one thing, but those with the badges are
getting a little carried away.
==========

That's a classic "big government" problem with everyone trying to
justify the importance of their job, no matter how ridiculous the
outcome.
Basically, you're unwilling to look at the larger issue.
Idiots start sentences with "Basically"...

-HB

On Aug 27, 3:14*pm, X ` Man wrote:
On 8/27/11 2:55 PM, Canuck57 wrote:









On 27/08/2011 12:32 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 8/27/11 2:29 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 27/08/2011 10:14 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 8/27/11 12:05 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 06:16:34 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Sounds like the Obama admin is taking it's business que from the
Middle
East. This is kind of like the "flash mobs" robbing retailers in the
city... Yep, I am sure plenty of them will be "lost" as you said....

I've seen the vids on the 'flash mobs' amazing how they can storm in
and pick a convenience store clean and nothing, or little can be done
about it....

===

Inner city stores have been dealing with issues like this for a long
time. Many end up installing electric locks on the front door so
everyone has to be buzzed in one at a time.

In the corporate world, of course, the crooked bankers, brokers and
corporate execs don't need to be buzzed in to steal your money...you
entrust it to them.

Idiots like you who mindlessly vote are the problem here. When was the
last time you voted with integrity and honor over color and party?

Canuckles thinks McCain and Palin represented integrity and
honor...snerk...

There in is your problem. You don't understand integrity and honor as
you have none yourself.

Canuckles thinks McCain and Palin represented something beyond senility
and self-promotion.

--
I'd much rather be a champion of the powerless than a lickspittle of the
powerful.

Sounds like you are describing Obama.and Biden.