So far as I have ever been able to determine, there does not exist a
non-pyrotechnic device that is conveniently attachable to a PFD and
meets USCG regulations regarding visual distress signals.
(http://seayaks.home.att.net/CoastGuardPage2.htm)

Is anyone aware of such a product?

I am aware of the product by ACR Electronics, but that thing seems way
to bulky.

The VIP Signal Light, which you may also be aware of, does not meet USCG
regulations.

I just became aware of http://www.greatlandlaser.com/ and their rescue
Laser Flare. Apparently they do plan to release an SOS version that
would meet USCG regulations. I doubt they would mind some further
encouragement from those who would be interested in what may be the only
product, which is not bulky, to do so.

Most people just carry three SkyBlazers or similar flares and attach a
strobe to their PFD. That meets CG requirements.

You seem to have some aversion to pyrotechnics. Why?

Eric wrote:
So far as I have ever been able to determine, there does not exist a
non-pyrotechnic device that is conveniently attachable to a PFD and
meets USCG regulations regarding visual distress signals.
(http://seayaks.home.att.net/CoastGuardPage2.htm)

Is anyone aware of such a product?

I am aware of the product by ACR Electronics, but that thing seems way
to bulky.

The VIP Signal Light, which you may also be aware of, does not meet USCG
regulations.

I just became aware of http://www.greatlandlaser.com/ and their rescue
Laser Flare. Apparently they do plan to release an SOS version that
would meet USCG regulations. I doubt they would mind some further
encouragement from those who would be interested in what may be the only
product, which is not bulky, to do so.

Brian Nystrom wrote:

Most people just carry three SkyBlazers or similar flares and attach a
strobe to their PFD. That meets CG requirements.

I understand that.

You seem to have some aversion to pyrotechnics. Why?

Because it is a pyrotechnic.

Because the flares have an extremely high rate of failure. If I am going
to spend my money on something, I want that something to work.


--
== Eric Gorr ========= http://www.ericgorr.net ========= ICQ:9293199 ===
"Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
benefit and harm." - Sun Tzu
== Insults, like violence, are the last refuge of the incompetent... ===

"Eric" wrote in message
news:1gcy4rj.b499j3yx8zwgN%egDfAusenetE5fz@verizon .net...
Brian Nystrom wrote:

Most people just carry three SkyBlazers or similar flares and attach a
strobe to their PFD. That meets CG requirements.

I understand that.

You seem to have some aversion to pyrotechnics. Why?

Because it is a pyrotechnic.

Because the flares have an extremely high rate of failure. If I am going
to spend my money on something, I want that something to work.


I guess there's also a factor to carrying something explosive and
potentially dagerous in your boat. What type of alternatives could there
be..? Some sort of pressure-launched device, that had an electric or
chemical source of light (not likely, I guess). Maybe some sort of dye that
would mark the water where you are? Do they make something like a Pieps for
seafaring use. like what ships have for when they get in trouble? I don't
know what the regs are, but I know I'd be wary of carrying flares; between
accidental discharge or failure, they'd be worrisome.

--riverman

On 28-Apr-2004, "riverman" wrote:

Maybe some sort of dye that
would mark the water where you are?

The dyes are for daytime use only.

Do they make something like a Pieps for
seafaring use. like what ships have for when they get in trouble?

EPIRB. Pricey but effective. Very pricey if you send a false alarm!

I know I'd be wary of carrying flares; between
accidental discharge or failure, they'd be worrisome.

I've not heard of an accidental discharge. If there was a significant
risk of that, I'd not carry three of them on my PFD at all times (for
the last 6 years).

ISTR reading somewhere that recent tests have shown that failure rates
are better for flares today when compared to even five years ago.
Can anyone confirm?

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:

On 28-Apr-2004, "riverman" wrote:


Maybe some sort of dye that
would mark the water where you are?


The dyes are for daytime use only.


Do they make something like a Pieps for
seafaring use. like what ships have for when they get in trouble?


EPIRB. Pricey but effective. Very pricey if you send a false alarm!


I know I'd be wary of carrying flares; between
accidental discharge or failure, they'd be worrisome.


I've not heard of an accidental discharge. If there was a significant
risk of that, I'd not carry three of them on my PFD at all times (for
the last 6 years).

ISTR reading somewhere that recent tests have shown that failure rates
are better for flares today when compared to even five years ago.
Can anyone confirm?

I can provide some imperical data that flares are far more reliable that
is often presumed. At a Coast Guard sponsored pyro demo, we were allowed
to shoot off our own flares (in addition to the much more fun stuff that
the CG brought). Out of ~20 SkyBlazers, Star Tracers and such that were
fired, there were zero failures. This included some of my own
SkyBlazers, which were carried exposed in the hip pad block in a kayak
for over a year and got wet every time I went out. Additionally, we set
off ~100 pieces of full size pyro (parachutes, meteors, handhelds and
smokes), all of which were expired, and there were zero failures. Since
that day, I've seen exactly one old SkyBlazer fail when we shot some off
on the 4th of July last year. So out of 25-30 such flares I've seen
launched, there was one failure.

Granted, this is not a scientific test, but the often quoted failure
rate of 50% is obviously a myth, at least when it comes to currently
available products. If one were to carry four flares, it's a safe bet
that at least three of them would work. I would expect that even if you
only carried three, they would all work. BTW, the Coast Guardsmen all
carry pencil flares in the mech vests they wear over their PFD's. They
believe in them and I imagine that like anything used by the military,
they were tested to death before being adopted.

As for accidental discharges, I don't see how that's even remotely
possible considering the way flares are ignited. The only design I've
seen that seemed like it might be prone to it was the Orion Star Tracer.
The little yellow cap comes off with little provocation, which allows
the igniter disk and cord to fall out where it could potentially snag on
something and fire the flare. That possibility can be elimiated simply
by keeping them in a bag. Since Orion bought out SkyBlazer, they have
upgraded the performance of SkyBlazer's superior design and have taken
the Star Tracer off the market.

Bottom line, I trust that the flares I carry will work, should I need
them. I carry three on my person and three more in the boat However, I
also have VHF radio and an emergency strobe attached to my PFD, both of
which I consider far more important and useful than flares.

"riverman" wrote in message ...
I guess there's also a factor to carrying something explosive and
potentially dagerous in your boat. What type of alternatives could there
be..?

According to the regulations, the alternative is to carry an Electric
Distress Signal.

The only product I am aware of which meets these regulations and would
be appropriate for kayaking (i.e. easily attachable to a PFD) is:

http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=1345

Would still be interested in learning about others...

Greatland Laser (http://www.greatlandlaser.com) has told me that they
plan to release one at some point (if I understood them correctly) or,
at least, when they release a 'green' rescue laser, it would likely be
a very nice thing to carry as well. The reason 'green' is nice is that
I believe the entire beam is visible in the air rather then just the
dot where it would hit something.

(Eric) wrote in message . com...
"riverman" wrote in message ...
I guess there's also a factor to carrying something explosive and
potentially dagerous in your boat. What type of alternatives could there
be..?

According to the regulations, the alternative is to carry an Electric
Distress Signal.

The only product I am aware of which meets these regulations and would
be appropriate for kayaking (i.e. easily attachable to a PFD) is:

http://www.cmcrescue.com/product.php?dept_id=1345

Would still be interested in learning about others...

A question was just raised elsewhere as to whether this light actually
flashes SOS, which it would need to do to meet the USCG regulations
for this purpose. While I do not know why they would call it an SOS
Rescue Light if it did not flash SOS, I was wondering if anyone knew
for sure....I have contacted the company as well, but haven't heard
back from them yet.

(Eric) wrote in message . com...
A question was just raised elsewhere as to whether this light actually
flashes SOS, which it would need to do to meet the USCG regulations
for this purpose. While I do not know why they would call it an SOS
Rescue Light if it did not flash SOS, I was wondering if anyone knew
for sure....I have contacted the company as well, but haven't heard
back from them yet.

Oops. Just heard back...I made an incorrect assumption that this light
would indeed flash SOS.

As such, it is not a replacement for flares and we are back down to
zero such lights which are easily attachable to a PFD.

According to CMC Rescure, the manufacturer of that light is Forespar
(http://www.forespar.com/). I plan to write to them and encourage them
to look into manufacturing a light that would be a replacement for
flares.

Sorry for the confusion I created.