|
Just for the record
In article om,
says... On 9/24/2011 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:54:59 -0400, John wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:13:59 -0400, Wayne wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:06:45 -0400, John wrote: Can you imagine being Harry's wife, forced to listen to that tripe after asking him to feel the baby kicking? "Honey, that is not a baby, despite what right-wingers may have told you. That is nothing more than a fetus, just like those in pregnant dogs and cats. It could be put to death right now with no loss to anyone." ===== John, I know you are very sincere in your religious beliefs and I have no intention of mocking them. Let me ask you this however: When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? Wayne, you know nothing of the sincerity of my religious beliefs. Other than my having stated I was Roman Catholic, you know nothing of my beliefs. One person here said something about a 16 week cutoff for abortions. Where that came from I don't know. Perhaps you could ask. What the hell difference does my idea about when a fertilized egg becomes a fetus have to do with anything? When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? ======== You can deny sincerity if you want but I don't believe it. It is intuitively obvious to anyone who has been fortunate enough to experience it, that a baby kicking in the womb is more than just a collection of sub-dividing cells. That is not the issue however. The question of when a fertilized egg becomes a viable life is actually very important. It is important to me because, like you, I am also opposed to aborting human life. But I am also opposed to bringing unwanted children into the world, and opposed to telling a woman that she must bring a child into the world because of an accident. It is clear to me and many others that a fertilized egg is not an actual human life, even though the potential is there. To argue otherwise is an act of religious faith not based on logic. Anyone who believes that life begins at conception is entitled to their faith as long as they don't try to impose their belief on others as you seem intent on doing. If you do otherwise, then you step on my beliefs and that of many others. PS, I find your tag line to be offensive and very unfortunate. Wayne, I couldn't have said the obvious better, although I'll bet you won't get an honest, sincere answer. He knows that. He was just baiting John. Tou can turn that question around and ask it to Wayne and Harry. You still won't get a knowlegeable honest answer. Got any more dead horses you want to beat? But the thing is, John presents it like he's 100% positive that a fetus is a human being and shouldn't be "murdered". Therefore, if he's positive of that, he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 11:28 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In raweb.com, says... On 9/24/2011 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:54:59 -0400, John wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:13:59 -0400, Wayne wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:06:45 -0400, John wrote: Can you imagine being Harry's wife, forced to listen to that tripe after asking him to feel the baby kicking? "Honey, that is not a baby, despite what right-wingers may have told you. That is nothing more than a fetus, just like those in pregnant dogs and cats. It could be put to death right now with no loss to anyone." ===== John, I know you are very sincere in your religious beliefs and I have no intention of mocking them. Let me ask you this however: When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? Wayne, you know nothing of the sincerity of my religious beliefs. Other than my having stated I was Roman Catholic, you know nothing of my beliefs. One person here said something about a 16 week cutoff for abortions. Where that came from I don't know. Perhaps you could ask. What the hell difference does my idea about when a fertilized egg becomes a fetus have to do with anything? When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? ======== You can deny sincerity if you want but I don't believe it. It is intuitively obvious to anyone who has been fortunate enough to experience it, that a baby kicking in the womb is more than just a collection of sub-dividing cells. That is not the issue however. The question of when a fertilized egg becomes a viable life is actually very important. It is important to me because, like you, I am also opposed to aborting human life. But I am also opposed to bringing unwanted children into the world, and opposed to telling a woman that she must bring a child into the world because of an accident. It is clear to me and many others that a fertilized egg is not an actual human life, even though the potential is there. To argue otherwise is an act of religious faith not based on logic. Anyone who believes that life begins at conception is entitled to their faith as long as they don't try to impose their belief on others as you seem intent on doing. If you do otherwise, then you step on my beliefs and that of many others. PS, I find your tag line to be offensive and very unfortunate. Wayne, I couldn't have said the obvious better, although I'll bet you won't get an honest, sincere answer. He knows that. He was just baiting John. Tou can turn that question around and ask it to Wayne and Harry. You still won't get a knowlegeable honest answer. Got any more dead horses you want to beat? But the thing is, John presents it like he's 100% positive that a fetus is a human being and shouldn't be "murdered". Therefore, if he's positive of that, he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. Do you think he knows? Why don't you tell us what you "think" you know. |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 11:28 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In raweb.com, says... On 9/24/2011 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:54:59 -0400, John wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:13:59 -0400, Wayne wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:06:45 -0400, John wrote: Can you imagine being Harry's wife, forced to listen to that tripe after asking him to feel the baby kicking? "Honey, that is not a baby, despite what right-wingers may have told you. That is nothing more than a fetus, just like those in pregnant dogs and cats. It could be put to death right now with no loss to anyone." ===== John, I know you are very sincere in your religious beliefs and I have no intention of mocking them. Let me ask you this however: When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? Wayne, you know nothing of the sincerity of my religious beliefs. Other than my having stated I was Roman Catholic, you know nothing of my beliefs. One person here said something about a 16 week cutoff for abortions. Where that came from I don't know. Perhaps you could ask. What the hell difference does my idea about when a fertilized egg becomes a fetus have to do with anything? When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? ======== You can deny sincerity if you want but I don't believe it. It is intuitively obvious to anyone who has been fortunate enough to experience it, that a baby kicking in the womb is more than just a collection of sub-dividing cells. That is not the issue however. The question of when a fertilized egg becomes a viable life is actually very important. It is important to me because, like you, I am also opposed to aborting human life. But I am also opposed to bringing unwanted children into the world, and opposed to telling a woman that she must bring a child into the world because of an accident. It is clear to me and many others that a fertilized egg is not an actual human life, even though the potential is there. To argue otherwise is an act of religious faith not based on logic. Anyone who believes that life begins at conception is entitled to their faith as long as they don't try to impose their belief on others as you seem intent on doing. If you do otherwise, then you step on my beliefs and that of many others. PS, I find your tag line to be offensive and very unfortunate. Wayne, I couldn't have said the obvious better, although I'll bet you won't get an honest, sincere answer. He knows that. He was just baiting John. Tou can turn that question around and ask it to Wayne and Harry. You still won't get a knowlegeable honest answer. Got any more dead horses you want to beat? But the thing is, John presents it like he's 100% positive that a fetus is a human being and shouldn't be "murdered". Therefore, if he's positive of that, he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And you are postive too. So, how about you answer the question? |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 11:11 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. What's the old saying... "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand". Being a Christian Liberatarian, I can't condone pushing my religious views on anybody, particularly someone who is only really asking a "gotcha" question anyway... BTW, I noticed you all never answered his question as to weather President Obama is a liar or a hypocrite when it comes to his religion. snerk You really don't want to have a civil discussion, you are looking to further the argument. Didn't work with Tim, isn't working with John, and it probably won't work with anybody else, like I said, "if you don't know, I can't explain it to you". And really, if you don't want to know, why ask? As expected. So you win.. You got your "gotcha" even though it won't lead to as much attention as you would desire.. And you still didn't answer the question yourself... |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And Wayne said it was "obvious to him" it isn't... So why not press him? Oh yeah, you are just asking "gotcha" questions that support your agenda... Sorry, I forgot for a second;) |
Just for the record
In article om,
says... On 9/24/2011 11:28 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In raweb.com, says... On 9/24/2011 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:54:59 -0400, John wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:13:59 -0400, Wayne wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:06:45 -0400, John wrote: Can you imagine being Harry's wife, forced to listen to that tripe after asking him to feel the baby kicking? "Honey, that is not a baby, despite what right-wingers may have told you. That is nothing more than a fetus, just like those in pregnant dogs and cats. It could be put to death right now with no loss to anyone." ===== John, I know you are very sincere in your religious beliefs and I have no intention of mocking them. Let me ask you this however: When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? Wayne, you know nothing of the sincerity of my religious beliefs. Other than my having stated I was Roman Catholic, you know nothing of my beliefs. One person here said something about a 16 week cutoff for abortions. Where that came from I don't know. Perhaps you could ask. What the hell difference does my idea about when a fertilized egg becomes a fetus have to do with anything? When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? ======== You can deny sincerity if you want but I don't believe it. It is intuitively obvious to anyone who has been fortunate enough to experience it, that a baby kicking in the womb is more than just a collection of sub-dividing cells. That is not the issue however. The question of when a fertilized egg becomes a viable life is actually very important. It is important to me because, like you, I am also opposed to aborting human life. But I am also opposed to bringing unwanted children into the world, and opposed to telling a woman that she must bring a child into the world because of an accident. It is clear to me and many others that a fertilized egg is not an actual human life, even though the potential is there. To argue otherwise is an act of religious faith not based on logic. Anyone who believes that life begins at conception is entitled to their faith as long as they don't try to impose their belief on others as you seem intent on doing. If you do otherwise, then you step on my beliefs and that of many others. PS, I find your tag line to be offensive and very unfortunate. Wayne, I couldn't have said the obvious better, although I'll bet you won't get an honest, sincere answer. He knows that. He was just baiting John. Tou can turn that question around and ask it to Wayne and Harry. You still won't get a knowlegeable honest answer. Got any more dead horses you want to beat? But the thing is, John presents it like he's 100% positive that a fetus is a human being and shouldn't be "murdered". Therefore, if he's positive of that, he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. Do you think he knows? Why don't you tell us what you "think" you know. I don't know, that's why I'm asking those who appear they DO know. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 11:28 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In raweb.com, says... On 9/24/2011 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 20:54:59 -0400, John wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 18:13:59 -0400, Wayne wrote: On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:06:45 -0400, John wrote: Can you imagine being Harry's wife, forced to listen to that tripe after asking him to feel the baby kicking? "Honey, that is not a baby, despite what right-wingers may have told you. That is nothing more than a fetus, just like those in pregnant dogs and cats. It could be put to death right now with no loss to anyone." ===== John, I know you are very sincere in your religious beliefs and I have no intention of mocking them. Let me ask you this however: When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? Wayne, you know nothing of the sincerity of my religious beliefs. Other than my having stated I was Roman Catholic, you know nothing of my beliefs. One person here said something about a 16 week cutoff for abortions. Where that came from I don't know. Perhaps you could ask. What the hell difference does my idea about when a fertilized egg becomes a fetus have to do with anything? When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? ======== You can deny sincerity if you want but I don't believe it. It is intuitively obvious to anyone who has been fortunate enough to experience it, that a baby kicking in the womb is more than just a collection of sub-dividing cells. That is not the issue however. The question of when a fertilized egg becomes a viable life is actually very important. It is important to me because, like you, I am also opposed to aborting human life. But I am also opposed to bringing unwanted children into the world, and opposed to telling a woman that she must bring a child into the world because of an accident. It is clear to me and many others that a fertilized egg is not an actual human life, even though the potential is there. To argue otherwise is an act of religious faith not based on logic. Anyone who believes that life begins at conception is entitled to their faith as long as they don't try to impose their belief on others as you seem intent on doing. If you do otherwise, then you step on my beliefs and that of many others. PS, I find your tag line to be offensive and very unfortunate. Wayne, I couldn't have said the obvious better, although I'll bet you won't get an honest, sincere answer. He knows that. He was just baiting John. Tou can turn that question around and ask it to Wayne and Harry. You still won't get a knowlegeable honest answer. Got any more dead horses you want to beat? But the thing is, John presents it like he's 100% positive that a fetus is a human being and shouldn't be "murdered". Therefore, if he's positive of that, he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And you are postive too. So, how about you answer the question? What do I appear to be "positive" to you about? I'm the one asking the question because I don't know, and don't pretend to know. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 11:11 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. What's the old saying... "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand". Being a Christian Liberatarian, I can't condone pushing my religious views on anybody, particularly someone who is only really asking a "gotcha" question anyway... BTW, I noticed you all never answered his question as to weather President Obama is a liar or a hypocrite when it comes to his religion. snerk You really don't want to have a civil discussion, you are looking to further the argument. Didn't work with Tim, isn't working with John, and it probably won't work with anybody else, like I said, "if you don't know, I can't explain it to you". And really, if you don't want to know, why ask? As expected. So you win.. You got your "gotcha" even though it won't lead to as much attention as you would desire.. And you still didn't answer the question yourself... It's not a "gotcha", and I didn't ask the question. I'm serious. If a fetus is a human when did it become one? And I DON'T KNOW the answer, hence the asking those that act like they DO know the answer. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And Wayne said it was "obvious to him" it isn't... So why not press him? Oh yeah, you are just asking "gotcha" questions that support your agenda... Sorry, I forgot for a second;) What is my "agenda", other than to learn? |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. Human, or Life? What's it gonna' be next time around? There is no compromise on your side at all as we have seen in the recent dismissal of the "compromise" don't ask don't tell in the military. The problem with your agenda is there is no room for compromise, unless it's merely a means to an uncompromising end.. Thus, it's really not worth playing pigeon hole with you.. |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 12:01 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And Wayne said it was "obvious to him" it isn't... So why not press him? Oh yeah, you are just asking "gotcha" questions that support your agenda... Sorry, I forgot for a second;) What is my "agenda", other than to learn? Uh, to waste your day trolling a news group, one subject at a time... |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... In article om, says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it? No, I don't, that's why I'd like John to answer the question. He seems quite adamant that a fetus is a human being, so he must know the answer! If you can be charged for murdering a fetus then it is a person. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 12:01 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. And Wayne said it was "obvious to him" it isn't... So why not press him? Oh yeah, you are just asking "gotcha" questions that support your agenda... Sorry, I forgot for a second;) What is my "agenda", other than to learn? Uh, to waste your day trolling a news group, one subject at a time... As suspected. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. Human, or Life? What's it gonna' be next time around? There is no compromise on your side at all as we have seen in the recent dismissal of the "compromise" don't ask don't tell in the military. The problem with your agenda is there is no room for compromise, unless it's merely a means to an uncompromising end.. Thus, it's really not worth playing pigeon hole with you.. I asked before, I'll ask again, what do you think MY agenda is??? I've not made ONE mention of the military, and I can't for the life of me figure out what the don't ask don't tell stuff (which I couldn't care less about, by the way) has to do with abortion rights and laws.....??? |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... In article , says... In article om, says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it? No, I don't, that's why I'd like John to answer the question. He seems quite adamant that a fetus is a human being, so he must know the answer! If you can be charged for murdering a fetus then it is a person. Okay, so that would mean that it's not a person until just about full term. Now we're getting somewhere. |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-) ... nor should the government. But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... In article , says... In article , says... In article om, says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it? No, I don't, that's why I'd like John to answer the question. He seems quite adamant that a fetus is a human being, so he must know the answer! If you can be charged for murdering a fetus then it is a person. Okay, so that would mean that it's not a person until just about full term. Now we're getting somewhere. When can the state charge you for murdering a fetus? |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote: On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote: In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. There are still several unanswered questions out there. I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-) ... nor should the government. But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved. It is never "settled" law, all we need to do is pass a Constitutional amendment. |
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On 9/24/2011 12:46 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... In , says... In raweb.com, says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it? No, I don't, that's why I'd like John to answer the question. He seems quite adamant that a fetus is a human being, so he must know the answer! If you can be charged for murdering a fetus then it is a person. Okay, so that would mean that it's not a person until just about full term. Now we're getting somewhere. Hold on there big fella' that's only "my" opinion... |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:16:18 -0400, Drifter wrote:
On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it? I didn't see Kevin's comment 'cause he's filtered. Kevin, if you're watching, what question would you like answered? If it is, "When does a fertilized egg become a fetus?", then I would say when it takes the form of humanity. I'm not, Kevin, going to unfilter you, so please get someone else to respond to your posts if you desire them answered. |
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On 24/09/2011 7:56 AM, BAR wrote:
In , says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. What's the old saying... "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand". Being a Christian Liberatarian, I can't condone pushing my religious views on anybody, particularly someone who is only really asking a "gotcha" question anyway... BTW, I noticed you all never answered his question as to weather President Obama is a liar or a hypocrite when it comes to his religion. snerk You really don't want to have a civil discussion, you are looking to further the argument. Didn't work with Tim, isn't working with John, and it probably won't work with anybody else, like I said, "if you don't know, I can't explain it to you". And really, if you don't want to know, why ask? Obama is a Muslim. Pretty obvious. -- First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging. So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt? |
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On 24/09/2011 6:24 AM, John H wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months back. Agreed, they do and that is why I brought it up. Lots of reasons a fetus gets aborted that are quit natural. Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also annoying. Good way to put it. When the fetus becomes viable as a self sustaining human being, it is then a human. But not before. -- First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging. So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt? |
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On 24/09/2011 7:09 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In , says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months back. Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also annoying. So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human? I figure about the time that through birth, there s a reasonable expectation and without millions spent, the product of conception can breath, think, move on its own. Say 7 1/2 months to 9 months. At say 8 weeks, not a human. -- First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging. So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt? |
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On 9/24/2011 4:02 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 6:24 AM, John H wrote: On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months back. Agreed, they do and that is why I brought it up. Lots of reasons a fetus gets aborted that are quit natural. Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also annoying. Good way to put it. When the fetus becomes viable as a self sustaining human being, it is then a human. But not before. Self sustaining, like when fetus gets a job and pays his own way, he finally becomes human. Interesting theory. |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:02:23 -0600, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 6:24 AM, John H wrote: On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months back. Agreed, they do and that is why I brought it up. Lots of reasons a fetus gets aborted that are quit natural. I'll have to admit to having no problem with 'natural' abortions. In fact, I didn't even know they were under discussion. Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also annoying. Good way to put it. When the fetus becomes viable as a self sustaining human being, it is then a human. But not before. They get killed afterwards. |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote:
So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human? At conception. === That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else. |
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On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote: So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human? At conception. === That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else. What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you want? You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now that you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law, and nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it. |
Just for the record
In article ,
says... On 24/09/2011 7:56 AM, BAR wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote: On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote: When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that it was only a fetus? So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with the bible in hand? Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+ weeks or so. Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much keep our beliefs to ourselves... So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou John won't. What's the old saying... "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand". Being a Christian Liberatarian, I can't condone pushing my religious views on anybody, particularly someone who is only really asking a "gotcha" question anyway... BTW, I noticed you all never answered his question as to weather President Obama is a liar or a hypocrite when it comes to his religion. snerk You really don't want to have a civil discussion, you are looking to further the argument. Didn't work with Tim, isn't working with John, and it probably won't work with anybody else, like I said, "if you don't know, I can't explain it to you". And really, if you don't want to know, why ask? Obama is a Muslim. Pretty obvious. He stated it to George Snuffalufagus. |
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"Wayne B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote: So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human? At conception. === That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else. ---------------------------------------------- True ... The Roman Catholic Church defined a human as existing at conception. At least it used to. Don't know what the RCC preaches now. However: I take exception to your reliance on a scientific definition of when a human first exists as well. Try as I might, I have yet to find any *proof* based in science as to when a human first exists or when it transitions from a fertilized egg, fetus to a "human". There are many science based papers on the subject and discussions as to the development of the brain, it's "wiring" and when that wiring develops connections to the spine and nervous system, etc. However, none of this science or medical explanation is *proof*. It's simply consensus. It may make logical sense based on what is known, but it is still an opinion, theory and general agreement in the scientific community. It also presents a bit of a sticky wicket in terms of defining by a period of time or date as to when the transition from fetus to human occurs, simply because the development in the womb is not exactly the same for each fetus, baby or human ... however you want to define it. One pregnancy could have a faster or slower development than another. So how can we arbitrarily (for legal purposes) define when a particular fetus transitioned to a human? We can't. So we "average" it. Hmmm. That means we might abort a fetus in one case and abort a human in another. Are we and the scientists smart enough to determine that? Do we have the right? Lastly, science has been proven to be dead wrong many, many times over the centuries. At one time the consensus was that the world was flat. More recently (like two days ago) some scientists at the CERN facility believe they found matter that travels faster than the speed of light. (yet to be confirmed, but I heard about this years ago in another experiment). If proven to be true, all bets are off in the world of physics and generally accepted theories. So ... with no proof really of anything, I think we are all correct to believe in what we are comfortable with with, (and I agree with you) that one person's or group's beliefs are not legislated to others. Eisboch |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:41:44 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
I think we are all correct to believe in what we are comfortable with with, (and I agree with you) that one person's or group's beliefs are not legislated to others. ====================== That is key. Religious beliefs should not be legislated. |
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On 9/24/2011 8:00 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:41:44 -0400, wrote: I think we are all correct to believe in what we are comfortable with with, (and I agree with you) that one person's or group's beliefs are not legislated to others. ====================== That is key. Religious beliefs should not be legislated. So, we can cut out all this Global Taxing via the Church of Al Gore stuff now? |
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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote: So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human? At conception. === That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else. Wayne, are you feeling legislated against? |
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In article ,
says... On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:58:45 -0400, JustWait wrote: On 9/24/2011 2:05 PM, wrote: On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait wrote: I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-) ... nor should the government. But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved. If the government had not become involved before that there would be no need for R v W. Ok, my timeline was off, but when the SCOTUS got involved, they owned it.. R v W was a political compromise. Neither side was completely satisfied and still aren't. I could argue both sides effectively but I come down on the side that women have the freedom to decide what they do with their body. (as do men) That is drugs, prostitution, gambling, riding without a helmet or abortion. It is none of the government's business. If God cares about her aborting her baby, she will have to deal with that herself and if she burns in everlasting hell, It is still her business, not mine. Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted? |
Just for the record
On 9/24/2011 8:42 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:58:45 -0400, JustWait wrote: On 9/24/2011 2:05 PM, wrote: On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait wrote: I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg becomes a human. I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-) ... nor should the government. But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved. If the government had not become involved before that there would be no need for R v W. Ok, my timeline was off, but when the SCOTUS got involved, they owned it.. R v W was a political compromise. Neither side was completely satisfied and still aren't. I could argue both sides effectively but I come down on the side that women have the freedom to decide what they do with their body. (as do men) That is drugs, prostitution, gambling, riding without a helmet or abortion. It is none of the government's business. If God cares about her aborting her baby, she will have to deal with that herself and if she burns in everlasting hell, It is still her business, not mine. We are the same mind here... But compromise, hardly. It was an means to an end, the end being abortion on demand and we are there now... |
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