Just for the record
 

On 9/24/2011 8:39 PM, John H wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

The only legislation related to religion in this country is restrictive
law...

Just for the record
 

North Star wrote:
Just wondering... did you ever go by the name.. 'Tuuk'??
He liked to say "ya" a lot.
If I was unemployed like you, I would be boating during the day and not
posting to usenet, you silly man!

-HB

Just for the record
 

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Just for the record
 

On 9/24/11 12:14 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until
20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig
file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

Human, or Life? What's it gonna' be next time around?

There is no compromise on your side at all as we have seen in the recent
dismissal of the "compromise" don't ask don't tell in the military. The
problem with your agenda is there is no room for compromise, unless it's
merely a means to an uncompromising end.. Thus, it's really not worth
playing pigeon hole with you..

Such logic! snerk

Just for the record
 

On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Seems to mean that life is a very important issue. Without life the
other two are useless.

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

So much for Republican racism.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ain-wins-cpac-
florida-straw-poll/

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:49:00 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:58:45 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 2:05 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

If the government had not become involved before that there would be
no need for R v W.

Ok, my timeline was off, but when the SCOTUS got involved, they owned it..

R v W was a political compromise. Neither side was completely
satisfied and still aren't.
I could argue both sides effectively but I come down on the side that
women have the freedom to decide what they do with their body. (as do
men)
That is drugs, prostitution, gambling, riding without a helmet or
abortion. It is none of the government's business.
If God cares about her aborting her baby, she will have to deal with
that herself and if she burns in everlasting hell, It is still her
business, not mine.

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.

Just for the record
 

In article , X ` Man
says...

On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

Move to a liberal state. Remember it is a choice, your choice to live in
a conservative state.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 8:29 AM, BAR wrote:
In articlemOednftfCbv8nuLTnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@earthlink .com,
says...

On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

So much for Republican racism.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ain-wins-cpac-
florida-straw-poll/




Naw...that was just a relative handful of Republican zealots expressing
their disdain for "Wreckless" Perry. Gotta admit, though, that Cain is a
trip and fun to watch, if not take seriously.

What happened to Bachmann? And is Sarah getting back in the race? Stay
tuned for more of the GOP Nominating Follies!

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Where, exactly, do centrists stand on these issues. I definitely agree
that we don't want to risk reelection "the current administration"

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 6:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Wassa matta? Your daughter had enough of your bull****?

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 8:31 AM, BAR wrote:
In articleytednb5ToMGclOLTnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink .com, X ` Man
says...

On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

Move to a liberal state. Remember it is a choice, your choice to live in
a conservative state.



Why waste your time on Harry's red herring... We have what amounts to
abortion on demand in every state. And if you don't like the law in your
state, the no compromise progressives set it up so some rapist can take
your kid over state lines for an abortion without even telling the
parent...

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 8:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 8:29 AM, BAR wrote:
In articlemOednftfCbv8nuLTnZ2dnUVZ_q6dnZ2d@earthlink .com,
says...

On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

So much for Republican racism.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ain-wins-cpac-
florida-straw-poll/




Naw...that was just a relative handful of Republican zealots expressing
their disdain for "Wreckless" Perry. Gotta admit, though, that Cain is a
trip and fun to watch, if not take seriously.

What happened to Bachmann? And is Sarah getting back in the race? Stay
tuned for more of the GOP Nominating Follies!

That was a short visit. Let me guess. She refused to discuss politics
with you.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


So, what do you consider a "centrist" position? We have abortion on
demand now, minors can sidestep their own parents and go over state
lines if their parents did choose to be in a more restrictive state? So,
what do you suggest is a "centrist" view. Maybe make the mothers uh,
well, get some unbiased info.... nope, can't do that.. maybe talk to the
family with the parents present, nope, can't do that... maybe suggest a
full term and adoption.. oppps, that won't happen... So, what is a
"centrist" position?

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 6:41 AM, HarryK wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:14 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 11:13 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until
20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig
file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

Human, or Life? What's it gonna' be next time around?

There is no compromise on your side at all as we have seen in the recent
dismissal of the "compromise" don't ask don't tell in the military. The
problem with your agenda is there is no room for compromise, unless it's
merely a means to an uncompromising end.. Thus, it's really not worth
playing pigeon hole with you..

Such logic! snerk

Works at least as well as yours.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 8:51 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 8:31 AM, BAR wrote:
In articleytednb5ToMGclOLTnZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@earthlink .com, X ` Man
says...

On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

Move to a liberal state. Remember it is a choice, your choice to live in
a conservative state.



Why waste your time on Harry's red herring... We have what amounts to
abortion on demand in every state. And if you don't like the law in your
state, the no compromise progressives set it up so some rapist can take
your kid over state lines for an abortion without even telling the
parent...

No, dummy, we don't. You are as uninformed on the abortion issue as you
are on virtually every other issue.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 8:55 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


So, what do you consider a "centrist" position? We have abortion on
demand now, minors can sidestep their own parents and go over state
lines if their parents did choose to be in a more restrictive state? So,
what do you suggest is a "centrist" view. Maybe make the mothers uh,
well, get some unbiased info.... nope, can't do that.. maybe talk to the
family with the parents present, nope, can't do that... maybe suggest a
full term and adoption.. oppps, that won't happen... So, what is a
"centrist" position?


What in your mind is "unbiased" information, and how should it be
presented, and by who?

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.

I agree!

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 8:30 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:49:00 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:58:45 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 2:05 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

If the government had not become involved before that there would be
no need for R v W.

Ok, my timeline was off, but when the SCOTUS got involved, they owned it..

R v W was a political compromise. Neither side was completely
satisfied and still aren't.
I could argue both sides effectively but I come down on the side that
women have the freedom to decide what they do with their body. (as do
men)
That is drugs, prostitution, gambling, riding without a helmet or
abortion. It is none of the government's business.
If God cares about her aborting her baby, she will have to deal with
that herself and if she burns in everlasting hell, It is still her
business, not mine.

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.


*C-O-N-T-R-A-C-E-P-T-I-O-N* That's usually forgotten when you let your
small head do your thinking. Cut the little head off or let it pay, I say.

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:05:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

If the government had not become involved before that there would be
no need for R v W.

"With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life, from its
commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the
contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to
stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from
immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and,
in some cases, from every degree of danger."
--James Wilson - A Framer of the US Constitution

Until the fundie churches got involved by social engineering and the
law after 1800, there was no prohibition against abortion performed
prior to quickening(18-20 weeks).

It's "commencement" would be birth.

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:16:18 -0400, Drifter wrote:

On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it?

I didn't see Kevin's comment 'cause he's filtered.

Kevin, if you're watching, what question would you like answered? If it is, "When does a fertilized
egg become a fetus?", then I would say when it takes the form of humanity.

I'm not, Kevin, going to unfilter you, so please get someone else to respond to your posts if you
desire them answered.

Awe look, John's trying to act as stupid as Don. And I think he's
progressing nicely!

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 8:00 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:41:44 -0400, wrote:

I think we are all correct to
believe in what we are comfortable with with, (and I agree
with you) that one person's or group's beliefs are not legislated to
others.

======================

That is key. Religious beliefs should not be legislated.


So, we can cut out all this Global Taxing via the Church of Al Gore
stuff now?

No, because that's something that you've made up in your head.

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


So, what do you consider a "centrist" position? We have abortion on
demand now, minors can sidestep their own parents and go over state
lines if their parents did choose to be in a more restrictive state? So,
what do you suggest is a "centrist" view. Maybe make the mothers uh,
well, get some unbiased info.... nope, can't do that.. maybe talk to the
family with the parents present, nope, can't do that... maybe suggest a
full term and adoption.. oppps, that won't happen... So, what is a
"centrist" position?

Bull****. there are very few states where a minor can get an abortion
without parental consent or notification.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.


They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/2011 10:49 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus
aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.


They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.


So what did you do when your offspring came crying to you "Daddy I'm
pregnant"

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.


What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law, and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the right
to tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own choices?
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Wise.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 5:41 PM, Eisboch wrote:

Hmmm. That means we might abort a fetus in one case and abort a human
in another.
Are we and the scientists smart enough to determine that? Do we have
the right?

I am not sure we have a choice. Good scientists with high rationality
index, good logic and cognitive skills are the best we have in society
to make a rational decisions.

Probably not smart enough all the same, but sure beats the alternatives.
Would you rather be judged by a flippant politician or statism
religion zealot make the choice?

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.

What I have seen is the race card being used by the left. $5 trillion
in added debt, failed foreign policy, no jobs or results... speaks for
itself. No need to go black or white or Hispanic.

If anything the blacks are being appeased too much. Are there not more
Hispanics than blacks?

Social safety network was squandered a long time ago. If you really
give a **** about keeping a house or car, do you worry about making the
payments after the repo man calls?

Just irrational for you to not see that the debt is gobbling up the
social security, Medicare and the like.

And if your religious, what does the bible or Koran say about the sins
of dishonored debts?
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 12:12 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.


Of course not...you're a right-wing racist in deep denial about
it...this usenet group is full of your kind.

Your financial bull**** talk just bores me, so I skip over it. I suspect
it bores everyone else, too. I doubt you earn as much as a convenience
store assistant manager.

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 2:58 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/24/2011 4:02 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 6:24 AM, John H wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote:

On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder
with
the bible in hand?

Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months
back.

Agreed, they do and that is why I brought it up. Lots of reasons a fetus
gets aborted that are quit natural.

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+
weeks or so.

Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also
annoying.

Good way to put it. When the fetus becomes viable as a self sustaining
human being, it is then a human. But not before.
Self sustaining, like when fetus gets a job and pays his own way, he
finally becomes human. Interesting theory.

Like most fear driven religious basket cases, you got it wrong and
twisted it.

But some truth to it. Why should not a parent have exclusive control
over children until they they can work and fend on their own provided
their intent is good? Can't spank a kid for doing something wrong
without a court case because some liberal has their knickers in a twist.
Far too many in society meddle in other peoples business without
proper cause.

But then you do get the opposite extreme where children are being
abused. Yet they be good church goers and it be ignored by the people,
politicians, judges and police. See the LDS get away with pedophilia
and polygamy. Jeffs' cult-sanctioned pedophilia, how long was that
going on unchecked?

Fact is most of our society is irrational, hypocritical and unjust.
Only the illusion of democracy and freedom exists. We worship propaganda
and bull**** and most of our species has poor rationality and logic
capabilities.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 12:25 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
most of our species has poor rationality and logic
capabilities.

A good description of you...spot on, in fact.

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 4:01 PM, John H wrote:

I'll have to admit to having no problem with 'natural' abortions. In fact, I didn't even know they
were under discussion.

It is under discussion because in the past, "It is all the womans
fault". Henry VIII for conception? And lots of cases where if a child
is miscarried, the woman is blamed.

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Just for the record
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/11 12:12 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.


Of course not...you're a right-wing racist in deep denial about
it...this usenet group is full of your kind.

Your financial bull**** talk just bores me, so I skip over it. I suspect
it bores everyone else, too. I doubt you earn as much as a convenience
store assistant manager.

Oh, look, the meeting of the Cowardly Duo must have adjourned! I do hope
the other member, Suckling Don made it!

Just for the record
 

On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:37:30 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Wayne, I feel that a fetus which can survive outside the womb is, in fact, a baby. They should,
therefore, have the right to life of any other baby, and killing them should be considered, as it is
in some cases, murder. The idea that late term abortions should be legal because of rape, incest,
'accident', or whatever is, in my opinion, bull****. Those are times for the 'morning after' pill.

That has nothing to do with my religion. The Catholic Church opposes *any* abortion, *any time*,
unless it's changed one hell of a lot in the past few years. The Catholic Church also opposes birth
control except that which can occur naturally through use of the 'rythm' method. I disagree with the
Catholic Church of these issues.

So, you can lay all you want on 'religion', but religion has little to do with my opinion.

Just for the record
 

On 9/25/11 1:15 PM, John H wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:37:30 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Wayne, I feel that a fetus which can survive outside the womb is, in fact, a baby. They should,
therefore, have the right to life of any other baby, and killing them should be considered, as it is
in some cases, murder. The idea that late term abortions should be legal because of rape, incest,
'accident', or whatever is, in my opinion, bull****. Those are times for the 'morning after' pill.



Hope this gives you a stroke, Herring, but I agree with you about
restricting late term pregnancies, except for the whatever you
mentioned. If it is discovered continuing a late term pregnancy presents
a significant risk to the life of the pregnant woman, she should be able
to terminate that pregnancy. Same with discovery of a seriously damaged
fetus, unless you want to contribute substantially to its lifelong care.

Now, what hospital will you be taken to, to recover from that stroke?

Just for the record
 

On 24/09/2011 2:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:50:43 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/09/2011 3:54 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:38:16 -0600,
wrote:

On 22/09/2011 2:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:44:08 -0400, wrote:

On 9/21/2011 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:10:06 -0400, wrote:

This is one slightly right of center, politically Independent who is 100
percent *against* the death penalty.

We need to find a way to deal with capital crimes in a different way.

Eisboch

Send the all the death row inmates to Europe and see how long it
takes them to reinstate hanging,firing squads and the guillotine

How about if "we" find an *effective* way to deal with capital crimes in
a different way *THEN* Get rid of the death penalty.

We haven't found an effective way to deal with petty crimes, yet.

Turning criminals loose from the justice system should be a criminal
offense....

China has. Caning, a time tested method of adult spanking. They say it
is highly effective in cost and in teaching of respect. And each time
they see you, you get more than before... they say 32 can cripple for life.

Rules are simple, standard graded bamboo canes are used. If the
administrator of the punishment breaks it cleanly over you ass, the cane
has been successfully administered. If it doesn't break, you get
another one until it does.

You might only get 3 canes for defacing a wall, 12 canes for a rape but
if you do it again, you might get 24 or more. They say it instills fear
to a point where they cease their violence and vandalism.

Where do you come up with this crazy ****?

Where do the "rules" come from?

"They say it instills fear..." who the hell is they?

"..they cease their violence and vandalism" and, of course, you have a
citation to back this up?

Where do you come up with this crazy ****?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S3CEgNl74

Something similar with the principal and a strap back in the 60's to a
bully....he ceased. Toronto Canada.

What you get for crime:

http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm

It is effective and efficient, that is why they use it.

A youtube video and a Table of Offenses does NOTHING to support the
statements you made. I still maintain you are full of ****, since you
have done nothing to support your argument.

Your financial ramblings are just as extreme, incorrect, and
unsupported as your views on the Correctional System.

You mean I don't worship debt. You mean I don't believe in "In Debt We
Trust!" fleabaggerism. I don't see honor or integrity in mortgaging my
grand kids futures for poitical, debt and socialism greed today.

Yep, I plead guilty.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?