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Drifter[_2_]

On 9/25/2011 8:30 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:49:00 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:58:45 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 2:05 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.

But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

If the government had not become involved before that there would be
no need for R v W.

Ok, my timeline was off, but when the SCOTUS got involved, they owned it..

R v W was a political compromise. Neither side was completely
satisfied and still aren't.
I could argue both sides effectively but I come down on the side that
women have the freedom to decide what they do with their body. (as do
men)
That is drugs, prostitution, gambling, riding without a helmet or
abortion. It is none of the government's business.
If God cares about her aborting her baby, she will have to deal with
that herself and if she burns in everlasting hell, It is still her
business, not mine.

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted?

Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.

*C-O-N-T-R-A-C-E-P-T-I-O-N* That's usually forgotten when you let your
small head do your thinking. Cut the little head off or let it pay, I say.

iBoaterer[_2_]

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 14:05:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 12:47:56 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.

But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

If the government had not become involved before that there would be
no need for R v W.

"With consistency, beautiful and undeviating, human life, from its
commencement to its close, is protected by the common law. In the
contemplation of law, life begins when the infant is first able to
stir in the womb. By the law, life is protected not only from
immediate destruction, but from every degree of actual violence, and,
in some cases, from every degree of danger."
--James Wilson - A Framer of the US Constitution

Until the fundie churches got involved by social engineering and the
law after 1800, there was no prohibition against abortion performed
prior to quickening(18-20 weeks).

It's "commencement" would be birth.

iBoaterer[_2_]

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 10:16:18 -0400, Drifter wrote:

On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

He can't. Wayne knows it. John knows it. Do you know it?

I didn't see Kevin's comment 'cause he's filtered.

Kevin, if you're watching, what question would you like answered? If it is, "When does a fertilized
egg become a fetus?", then I would say when it takes the form of humanity.

I'm not, Kevin, going to unfilter you, so please get someone else to respond to your posts if you
desire them answered.

Awe look, John's trying to act as stupid as Don. And I think he's
progressing nicely!

Drifter[_2_]

On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.

But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.

D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

iBoaterer[_2_]

In article ,
says...

On 9/24/2011 8:00 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:41:44 -0400, wrote:

I think we are all correct to
believe in what we are comfortable with with, (and I agree
with you) that one person's or group's beliefs are not legislated to
others.

======================

That is key. Religious beliefs should not be legislated.

So, we can cut out all this Global Taxing via the Church of Al Gore
stuff now?

No, because that's something that you've made up in your head.

iBoaterer[_2_]

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

So, what do you consider a "centrist" position? We have abortion on
demand now, minors can sidestep their own parents and go over state
lines if their parents did choose to be in a more restrictive state? So,
what do you suggest is a "centrist" view. Maybe make the mothers uh,
well, get some unbiased info.... nope, can't do that.. maybe talk to the
family with the parents present, nope, can't do that... maybe suggest a
full term and adoption.. oppps, that won't happen... So, what is a
"centrist" position?

Bull****. there are very few states where a minor can get an abortion
without parental consent or notification.

X ` Man

On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus aborted?

Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.

They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.

Drifter[_2_]

On 9/25/2011 10:49 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus
aborted?

Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.

They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.

So what did you do when your offspring came crying to you "Daddy I'm
pregnant"

Canuck57[_9_]

On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law, and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the right
to tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own choices?
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

Canuck57[_9_]

On 24/09/2011 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Wise.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

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