On 24/09/2011 5:41 PM, Eisboch wrote:

Hmmm. That means we might abort a fetus in one case and abort a human
in another.
Are we and the scientists smart enough to determine that? Do we have
the right?

I am not sure we have a choice. Good scientists with high rationality
index, good logic and cognitive skills are the best we have in society
to make a rational decisions.

Probably not smart enough all the same, but sure beats the alternatives.
Would you rather be judged by a flippant politician or statism
religion zealot make the choice?

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.

What I have seen is the race card being used by the left. $5 trillion
in added debt, failed foreign policy, no jobs or results... speaks for
itself. No need to go black or white or Hispanic.

If anything the blacks are being appeased too much. Are there not more
Hispanics than blacks?

Social safety network was squandered a long time ago. If you really
give a **** about keeping a house or car, do you worry about making the
payments after the repo man calls?

Just irrational for you to not see that the debt is gobbling up the
social security, Medicare and the like.

And if your religious, what does the bible or Koran say about the sins
of dishonored debts?
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 9/25/11 12:12 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.


Of course not...you're a right-wing racist in deep denial about
it...this usenet group is full of your kind.

Your financial bull**** talk just bores me, so I skip over it. I suspect
it bores everyone else, too. I doubt you earn as much as a convenience
store assistant manager.

On 24/09/2011 2:58 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/24/2011 4:02 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 6:24 AM, John H wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 00:51:47 -0600, wrote:

On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for murder
with
the bible in hand?

Natural miscarriages occur. My daughter went through one a few months
back.

Agreed, they do and that is why I brought it up. Lots of reasons a fetus
gets aborted that are quit natural.

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start until 20+
weeks or so.

Saying a fetus isn't a baby, with no regard to viability, is also
annoying.

Good way to put it. When the fetus becomes viable as a self sustaining
human being, it is then a human. But not before.
Self sustaining, like when fetus gets a job and pays his own way, he
finally becomes human. Interesting theory.

Like most fear driven religious basket cases, you got it wrong and
twisted it.

But some truth to it. Why should not a parent have exclusive control
over children until they they can work and fend on their own provided
their intent is good? Can't spank a kid for doing something wrong
without a court case because some liberal has their knickers in a twist.
Far too many in society meddle in other peoples business without
proper cause.

But then you do get the opposite extreme where children are being
abused. Yet they be good church goers and it be ignored by the people,
politicians, judges and police. See the LDS get away with pedophilia
and polygamy. Jeffs' cult-sanctioned pedophilia, how long was that
going on unchecked?

Fact is most of our society is irrational, hypocritical and unjust.
Only the illusion of democracy and freedom exists. We worship propaganda
and bull**** and most of our species has poor rationality and logic
capabilities.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 9/25/11 12:25 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
most of our species has poor rationality and logic
capabilities.

A good description of you...spot on, in fact.

On 24/09/2011 4:01 PM, John H wrote:

I'll have to admit to having no problem with 'natural' abortions. In fact, I didn't even know they
were under discussion.

It is under discussion because in the past, "It is all the womans
fault". Henry VIII for conception? And lots of cases where if a child
is miscarried, the woman is blamed.

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/11 12:12 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 4:33 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


I hope the GOP maintains its prejudice against women, blacks, Latinos,
government, and all the other groups it hates. In fact, I hope it adds
groups. The last thing this country needs is a GOP administration that
is hell-bent on destroying what little is left of the social safety
network.

Funny, I have not seen that prejudice you talk about.


Of course not...you're a right-wing racist in deep denial about
it...this usenet group is full of your kind.

Your financial bull**** talk just bores me, so I skip over it. I suspect
it bores everyone else, too. I doubt you earn as much as a convenience
store assistant manager.

Oh, look, the meeting of the Cowardly Duo must have adjourned! I do hope
the other member, Suckling Don made it!

On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:37:30 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John H
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, BAR wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Wayne, I feel that a fetus which can survive outside the womb is, in fact, a baby. They should,
therefore, have the right to life of any other baby, and killing them should be considered, as it is
in some cases, murder. The idea that late term abortions should be legal because of rape, incest,
'accident', or whatever is, in my opinion, bull****. Those are times for the 'morning after' pill.

That has nothing to do with my religion. The Catholic Church opposes *any* abortion, *any time*,
unless it's changed one hell of a lot in the past few years. The Catholic Church also opposes birth
control except that which can occur naturally through use of the 'rythm' method. I disagree with the
Catholic Church of these issues.

So, you can lay all you want on 'religion', but religion has little to do with my opinion.

On 9/25/11 1:15 PM, John H wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:37:30 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.

Wayne, I feel that a fetus which can survive outside the womb is, in fact, a baby. They should,
therefore, have the right to life of any other baby, and killing them should be considered, as it is
in some cases, murder. The idea that late term abortions should be legal because of rape, incest,
'accident', or whatever is, in my opinion, bull****. Those are times for the 'morning after' pill.



Hope this gives you a stroke, Herring, but I agree with you about
restricting late term pregnancies, except for the whatever you
mentioned. If it is discovered continuing a late term pregnancy presents
a significant risk to the life of the pregnant woman, she should be able
to terminate that pregnancy. Same with discovery of a seriously damaged
fetus, unless you want to contribute substantially to its lifelong care.

Now, what hospital will you be taken to, to recover from that stroke?

On 24/09/2011 2:56 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:50:43 -0600,
wrote:

On 23/09/2011 3:54 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 18:38:16 -0600,
wrote:

On 22/09/2011 2:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 21:44:08 -0400, wrote:

On 9/21/2011 9:12 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 19:10:06 -0400, wrote:

This is one slightly right of center, politically Independent who is 100
percent *against* the death penalty.

We need to find a way to deal with capital crimes in a different way.

Eisboch

Send the all the death row inmates to Europe and see how long it
takes them to reinstate hanging,firing squads and the guillotine

How about if "we" find an *effective* way to deal with capital crimes in
a different way *THEN* Get rid of the death penalty.

We haven't found an effective way to deal with petty crimes, yet.

Turning criminals loose from the justice system should be a criminal
offense....

China has. Caning, a time tested method of adult spanking. They say it
is highly effective in cost and in teaching of respect. And each time
they see you, you get more than before... they say 32 can cripple for life.

Rules are simple, standard graded bamboo canes are used. If the
administrator of the punishment breaks it cleanly over you ass, the cane
has been successfully administered. If it doesn't break, you get
another one until it does.

You might only get 3 canes for defacing a wall, 12 canes for a rape but
if you do it again, you might get 24 or more. They say it instills fear
to a point where they cease their violence and vandalism.

Where do you come up with this crazy ****?

Where do the "rules" come from?

"They say it instills fear..." who the hell is they?

"..they cease their violence and vandalism" and, of course, you have a
citation to back this up?

Where do you come up with this crazy ****?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S3CEgNl74

Something similar with the principal and a strap back in the 60's to a
bully....he ceased. Toronto Canada.

What you get for crime:

http://www.corpun.com/sgjur2.htm

It is effective and efficient, that is why they use it.

A youtube video and a Table of Offenses does NOTHING to support the
statements you made. I still maintain you are full of ****, since you
have done nothing to support your argument.

Your financial ramblings are just as extreme, incorrect, and
unsupported as your views on the Correctional System.

You mean I don't worship debt. You mean I don't believe in "In Debt We
Trust!" fleabaggerism. I don't see honor or integrity in mortgaging my
grand kids futures for poitical, debt and socialism greed today.

Yep, I plead guilty.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?