On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.


What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you
want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law, and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the right to
tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own choices?

What more do they want? They already have abortion on demand as a
"compromise", what is next, will they get to choose who must have an
abortion??

On 9/25/11 5:36 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:56:52 -0400, wrote:

On 9/25/2011 10:49 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus
aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.


They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.


So what did you do when your offspring came crying to you "Daddy I'm
pregnant"

It is far too late then. Your job as a parent is to make sure your
kids know what causes babies and is responsible enough to make good
choices. I know it is a strange concept but my daughter and her
husband waited almost 3 years after they got married to start having
babies.

I have three daughters between age 17 and 30, two married and still none
of the three have been pregnant... I raised them not to get into a
situation where "that" was all there was to do. It was not that hard but
it did mean I couldn't spend my evenings on a bar stool or my weekends
in front of a TV...


Do they know they probably have to have sexual intercourse to get
pregnant? There are several other ways, of course, but I doubt
immaculate conception is an excuse that will work these days.

On 9/25/2011 3:58 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 3:31 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 15:16:38 -0400, wrote:

On 9/25/2011 2:53 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 19:15:14 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become
a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Why are beliefs based upon religous principles contrary to the public
good but beliefs based upon secular humanism are encouraged as good
for
the public?

Typically law comes from a deity thru a king to the people. Or have
you
forgotten about history, all of history.

Spoken like a true Moslem. Sharia law, anybody?

Didn't Krause call himself a secular humanist a short time ago?

No, he didn't, though it makes me wonder if you are the spoofer that
did. Did you also spoof NOYB with the wrong name?

Wonder all you want but Krause did use that as a handle for a period of
time.

Yes, he even had a reference to it in his sig file for a while...

On 9/25/2011 12:03 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:41 PM, Eisboch wrote:

Hmmm. That means we might abort a fetus in one case and abort a human
in another.
Are we and the scientists smart enough to determine that? Do we have
the right?

I am not sure we have a choice. Good scientists with high rationality
index, good logic and cognitive skills are the best we have in society
to make a rational decisions.

Probably not smart enough all the same, but sure beats the alternatives.
Would you rather be judged by a flippant politician or statism religion
zealot make the choice?


I would be more in fear of a "secular humanist" like our resident asshole...

On 9/25/2011 9:43 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 9/25/2011 12:37 AM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 20:39:48 -0400, John
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wayne, are you feeling legislated against?

=======

Not at all but I'm concerned by the single issue zealousness
surrounding all of this. The country faces more important challenges
and if the Republican party can not find a more centrist position on
women's rights, they run the risk of reelecting the current
administration. Think about that.


So, what do you consider a "centrist" position? We have abortion on
demand now, minors can sidestep their own parents and go over state
lines if their parents did choose to be in a more restrictive state? So,
what do you suggest is a "centrist" view. Maybe make the mothers uh,
well, get some unbiased info.... nope, can't do that.. maybe talk to the
family with the parents present, nope, can't do that... maybe suggest a
full term and adoption.. oppps, that won't happen... So, what is a
"centrist" position?

Bull****. there are very few states where a minor can get an abortion
without parental consent or notification.

Bull****, a school adviser can go to a judge...

On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Wise.

Yes, but the "religion" of atheism is taught, uh, pushed in the schools.
I guess you are ok with that?

On 9/25/11 5:40 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..

bull****

On 9/25/11 5:40 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..


You're misinformed, but it is interesting that you have that incorrect
info "readily available." Good luck.

On 25/09/2011 3:39 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 5:30 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 2:11 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:04 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On 24/09/2011 7:56 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 9:08 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you
argue that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group
and spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

What's the old saying... "If I have to explain it to you, you
wouldn't
understand". Being a Christian Liberatarian, I can't condone
pushing my
religious views on anybody, particularly someone who is only really
asking a "gotcha" question anyway...

BTW, I noticed you all never answered his question as to weather
President Obama is a liar or a hypocrite when it comes to his
religion.
snerk You really don't want to have a civil discussion, you are
looking to further the argument. Didn't work with Tim, isn't working
with John, and it probably won't work with anybody else, like I
said,
"if you don't know, I can't explain it to you". And really, if you
don't
want to know, why ask?

Obama is a Muslim.

Pretty obvious.

He stated it to George Snuffalufagus.


From a Saudi point of view, Obama has been real good. Getting ready for
a Islamic fundi middle east state. Look at the leaders who have fallen,
no Sharia/Islam as the basis of government.

But I suspect the Muslim Brotherhood is an Obama ally.

Ally? He is their best weapon..
Surely there is a moron chorus somewhere for you two...maybe on youtube,
eh?

Well he is Islam's best weapon. Uniting the middle easy and arab
countries into a mega Islam under Saudi dominance. Libya was Saudi's
biggest oil/riches competition. And US citizens protect a
non-democratic state of Sharia and slavery.

Obama does nothing in countries protected by Saudi politics. Neither
did Bush for that mater.

Always kind of miffed me why most 9/11 was of Saudi/Yemen descent, known
moneys from Saudi/Yemen for terrorism yet so little done. Hey, who
funded Osama? Who funds Hamas?

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 25/09/2011 3:40 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..

Doubtful. How about Utah? FDLS might adopt them. Especially if female
and not genetically related to the flock.

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?