On 25/09/2011 3:41 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.


What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you
want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law,
and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the right to
tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own choices?

What more do they want? They already have abortion on demand as a
"compromise", what is next, will they get to choose who must have an
abortion??

So? What is wrong with the choice being exclusively between the woman
and the doctor?

It isn't your womb after all.

How about government dictating circumcision? (or banning it?)

Or maybe one step further, claim your genetics are not good enough and
you must be sterilized. (an every genome has defects, that is why we are
not the same).
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 25/09/2011 3:46 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Wise.

Yes, but the "religion" of atheism is taught, uh, pushed in the schools.
I guess you are ok with that?

Lots of things are pushed through the schools. 1/2 the reason big
government likes K12 is the brainwashing, government is good, unions are
good, statism is good, your government can do no wrong, you can only
vote democrat or republican, the two chosen ponies in the socially
rigged race of democracy.

But the best schools discuss it all, open minded, teach but do not
profess, and get the kids to think and choose for themselves without bias.

How much sociology do kids get, zero. Do schools discuss media
propaganda, herd management, the use of greed and envy by politicians?
How about how debt really works? Most can't even later calculate
interest on their debt as adults.

Fact is K12 has only one real purpose politicians will not discuss
frankly. Make herd animals conditioned for government control and
benefit of the big government.

As socially dependent sheep are far less likely to revolt over the
financial slavery and corruption of big government. But th 18 year olds
of the last 5 years are a growing discontent that will in time bring DC
to its knees, just too much corruption.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

On 9/25/2011 9:43 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 3:40 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you
argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group
and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own
personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized
egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..

Doubtful. How about Utah? FDLS might adopt them. Especially if female
and not genetically related to the flock.


So, they get in a car, hip hop over the border, and have at it...

On 9/25/2011 9:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 3:41 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.


What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you
want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now
that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law,
and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals
beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the right to
tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own
choices?

What more do they want? They already have abortion on demand as a
"compromise", what is next, will they get to choose who must have an
abortion??

So? What is wrong with the choice being exclusively between the woman
and the doctor?

It isn't your womb after all.

How about government dictating circumcision? (or banning it?)

Or maybe one step further, claim your genetics are not good enough and
you must be sterilized. (an every genome has defects, that is why we are
not the same).

My point is, why are we even talking about it.. How much more
"compromise" do you want, you have abortion on demand now, paid for and
delivered by organizations who have only one solution in their arsenal,
and make a ton of money on it, with no right for any other information
or opinion to the young girl that walks in....? if there is any more
"compromise"... we will be at the point of: "government dictating
circumcision (or banning it?) Or claiming your genetics are not good
enough and you must be sterilized." So, I ask you again, how much more
"compromise" do you want?

On 9/25/2011 10:07 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 3:46 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 4:54 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:08:28 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.

Wholeheartedly agree, let me restate:

You are entitled to your religious beliefs, as long as you don't try
to make them the law of the land.

Wise.

Yes, but the "religion" of atheism is taught, uh, pushed in the schools.
I guess you are ok with that?

Lots of things are pushed through the schools. 1/2 the reason big
government likes K12 is the brainwashing, government is good, unions are
good, statism is good, your government can do no wrong, you can only
vote democrat or republican, the two chosen ponies in the socially
rigged race of democracy.

But the best schools discuss it all, open minded, teach but do not
profess, and get the kids to think and choose for themselves without bias.

Well, unless it's a system of belief held by some 80% of the population,
right? I would expect that type of somethingoranother from the
progressives here, not so much you...


How much sociology do kids get, zero. Do schools discuss media
propaganda, herd management, the use of greed and envy by politicians?
How about how debt really works? Most can't even later calculate
interest on their debt as adults.

Fact is K12 has only one real purpose politicians will not discuss
frankly. Make herd animals conditioned for government control and
benefit of the big government.

As socially dependent sheep are far less likely to revolt over the
financial slavery and corruption of big government. But th 18 year olds
of the last 5 years are a growing discontent that will in time bring DC
to its knees, just too much corruption.

On 25/09/2011 3:43 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 12:03 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:41 PM, Eisboch wrote:

Hmmm. That means we might abort a fetus in one case and abort a human
in another.
Are we and the scientists smart enough to determine that? Do we have
the right?

I am not sure we have a choice. Good scientists with high rationality
index, good logic and cognitive skills are the best we have in society
to make a rational decisions.

Probably not smart enough all the same, but sure beats the alternatives.
Would you rather be judged by a flippant politician or statism religion
zealot make the choice?


I would be more in fear of a "secular humanist" like our resident
asshole...

Yep. But the answer also has to do with are you guilty or not and your
position in the system.

For example, under Sharia law you are twice as right as a Muslim male
than a female. And infidels count for nothing, and in fact Sharia
courts my toss out factual scientific evidence in favor of a Muslim
make. Sort of playing poker with two wilds cards dealt to you and there
are only 2 in the deck.

Case in point. Malaysian woman working for slave wages for a Saudi
Muslim woman, Muslim master does not want to let her go. In an effort
to get out, Muslim slave master is killed. Off with the infidels head.
The full story.

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/201...-saudi-arabia/

Fact is Saudi Arabia is a slave state. Not a week goes by without an
example of required obedience.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_t...n_Saudi_Arabia

Yet King Fahd's sons go to the US all the time, and time to keep both
you girls and boys indoors.

Yet Obama the great ignores this, and goes to Libya with a much better
human rights record in the region.

As Saudi Arabia is amongst the worst human right offenders in the world.

--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/11 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 10:56:52 -0400, wrote:

On 9/25/2011 10:49 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/25/11 10:44 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Sep 2011 08:30:20 -0400, wrote:

Should men have to pay child support when they wanted the fetus
aborted?


Yes,

Why? They didn't want the fetus carried to term.


They should have kept it in their pants or used a rubber. Actions have
consequences

People with BAR's religious beliefs are against mechanical or
pharmaceutical contraception.


So what did you do when your offspring came crying to you "Daddy I'm
pregnant"

It is far too late then. Your job as a parent is to make sure your
kids know what causes babies and is responsible enough to make good
choices. I know it is a strange concept but my daughter and her
husband waited almost 3 years after they got married to start having
babies.

My daughter waited longer than that...and she was in her 30s's. Too busy
with education and career.

Of course, your daughter, like you, is better than every other living
creature.......

In article ,
says...

On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..

Not true at all.

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_fact...abortion_laws/

On 9/26/2011 9:03 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On 9/25/2011 9:39 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 9/25/2011 6:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 9/24/11 12:47 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/24/2011 12:39 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:13:41 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:08:42 -0400, wrote:

In ,

says...

On 9/24/2011 2:51 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 23/09/2011 6:54 PM, John H wrote:

When your wife asked you to feel the baby kicking, did you argue
that
it was only a fetus?

So if at 7 months, the woman miscarries, you beat her up for
murder with
the bible in hand?

Your tag line is stupid and annoying. And that doesn't start
until 20+
weeks or so.

Well, I dare say you have a lot of nerve going after John for a
sig file
when you are by far the very most prolific poster on the group and
spend
much more time and many more paragraphs promoting your own personal
views on others... But then you go after those of us who pretty
much
keep our beliefs to ourselves...

So, why don't YOU give answers to Wayne's questions? Holier than
thou
John won't.

There are still several unanswered questions out there.

I wholeheartedly agree! BUT, when someone acts like they are
absolutely
SURE that a fetus is a human, then he must know when a fertilized egg
becomes a human.

I don't have a puppy in that fight. ;-)

... nor should the government.


But they did get involved. Rowe vs Wade. It's settled law according to
the Supreme Court, the govt. is involved.


D'uh. What about the conservative states working overtime to outlaw
abortion or to make it nearly impossible to get one? Or are you not
aware of those developments, either?

You have a say in Maryland Politics. Other States' politics are none of
your business. Last time I checked we are still free to move about the
country, unless O/bama changed that.

Apples to oranges troll question, we have abortion on demand anywhere in
the US..

Not true at all.

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_fact...abortion_laws/



OK, so some folks have to spirit the little girls over state lines.. We
have roads and cars now, from almost anywhere, the next state is a
couple hours "that way" with a car...

On 25/09/2011 8:26 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 9:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 25/09/2011 3:41 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 9/25/2011 11:44 AM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 24/09/2011 5:11 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 18:31:39 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 9/24/2011 6:08 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 09:57:46 -0400, wrote:

So answer his question. Just when does a fertilized egg become a
human?

At conception.

===

That's a religious view not supportable by any logic or science. It
even fails the common sense test. You are entitled to your beliefs
as long as you don't try to legislate them for everyone else.


What do you care? We have abortion on demand now, what more do you
want?
You have taken the parents out of the equation, which "even fails
the
common sense test". Like I said before, compromise for abortion
advocates, and most other zealots is just a means to an end.. Now
that
you have it 100% your way you want it to be considered settled law,
and
nobody else can have an opinion on it.. I get it.

It actually was "settled law" until the religious zealots, with whom
you apparently identify, tried to make their religious opinion a
secular law.

There is no such thing as "settled law."

It is sad that parents had to be "taken out of the equation," but
there are parents that, due to religious convictions, will allow
children to starve, go without medical treatment, and other
(secularly) ridiculous actions. Even now, there are parents that feel
that NOT vaccinating their children (boys AND girls) against HPV,
which causes cervical cancer, will keep then chaste and pure. They
are
even taking their position to court to defend their right as parents
to allow their children to get cervical cancer. But that is sane,
right?

Parents have been taken out of the equation because the liberals
beliefs
are contrary to those of conservatives and the liberals cannot
stand to
let others live their own lives.

Actually, when it comes to abortion and religion, drop the liberal and
conservative thing. Bot sides have their fanatics that feel the
right to
tell others what to do.

Libertarian versus statism might have better alignment. Comes down to
how much do you believe others have the rights to make their own
choices?

What more do they want? They already have abortion on demand as a
"compromise", what is next, will they get to choose who must have an
abortion??

So? What is wrong with the choice being exclusively between the woman
and the doctor?

It isn't your womb after all.

How about government dictating circumcision? (or banning it?)

Or maybe one step further, claim your genetics are not good enough and
you must be sterilized. (an every genome has defects, that is why we are
not the same).

My point is, why are we even talking about it.. How much more
"compromise" do you want, you have abortion on demand now, paid for and
delivered by organizations who have only one solution in their arsenal,
and make a ton of money on it, with no right for any other information
or opinion to the young girl that walks in....? if there is any more
"compromise"... we will be at the point of: "government dictating
circumcision (or banning it?) Or claiming your genetics are not good
enough and you must be sterilized." So, I ask you again, how much more
"compromise" do you want?

No more is really needed, provided the women have access without the
harassment and bully mentality. Their choice.

Don't get me wrong, I am nether pro nor con in the decision, just
believe it is their right to their body. Government (nor religion)
shouldn't be used to dictate having babies.

It isn't 10,000 BC with a dwindling population of only 4 million world
wide. As of 1825 give or take the population was a billion. Today 7
billion....it can't continue this way as one way or another there are
going to be limits. If anything, in large areas of the world we should
be looking at controls in birth.

Our jobs should be to our family, not to the state to provided breeding
vessels and soldiers.
--
First rule of holes: If you're in one, don't keep digging.
So in the hole, why do we insanely want more debt?