I'm still looking to purchase my first kayak. I'm kinda partial to
the CD Scirocco. I'll no doubt not have enough experience before I
make a purchase to reasonalby tell the difference between a fiberglass
craft and a plastic one as far as performance goes. To me, the price
difference is not that geat. I kinda like the weight difference for
loading and unloading off the truck. I'm told the plastic is much
better at taking the abuse of rocks and oyster bars. So, I'd like to
pose a couple of questions to those more experience kayakers:

Just how much difference is there in performance between plastic and
fiberglass? How fragile are the fiberglass kayaks to abrasion that
I'm likely to encounter kayaking in Florida estuaries?

Thanks for any opinions.

bb

Fiberglass is usually stiffer than the plastic, and this usually equates
into better performance. Most paddling will do little more than an
occasional scratch on a glass boat. The light weight is a bonus. Unless
you plan to surf frequently on a boulderey beach, choose the glass.

On Fri, 07 May 2004 15:13:26 GMT, bb wrote:

I'm still looking to purchase my first kayak. I'm kinda partial to
the CD Scirocco. I'll no doubt not have enough experience before I
make a purchase to reasonalby tell the difference between a fiberglass
craft and a plastic one as far as performance goes. To me, the price
difference is not that geat. I kinda like the weight difference for
loading and unloading off the truck. I'm told the plastic is much
better at taking the abuse of rocks and oyster bars. So, I'd like to
pose a couple of questions to those more experience kayakers:

Just how much difference is there in performance between plastic and
fiberglass? How fragile are the fiberglass kayaks to abrasion that
I'm likely to encounter kayaking in Florida estuaries?

Thanks for any opinions.

bb

Huge performance difference. If money is no object than go glass no
question.

Where I paddle (Hudson, Mohawk rivers, Northeast lakes, etc) I often have to
launch from concrete boat ramps or rocky shores, so for me plastic is a better
choice. My Pungo is mightily scarred, but I don't really worry about it the way
I would if I had an expensive glass boat.

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bb wrote in message . ..
I'm still looking to purchase my first kayak. I'm kinda partial to
the CD Scirocco. I'll no doubt not have enough experience before I
make a purchase to reasonalby tell the difference between a fiberglass
craft and a plastic one as far as performance goes. To me, the price
difference is not that geat. I kinda like the weight difference for
loading and unloading off the truck. I'm told the plastic is much
better at taking the abuse of rocks and oyster bars. So, I'd like to
pose a couple of questions to those more experience kayakers:

Just how much difference is there in performance between plastic and
fiberglass? How fragile are the fiberglass kayaks to abrasion that
I'm likely to encounter kayaking in Florida estuaries?

Thanks for any opinions.

bb

Scirroco is a fine boat, The Gulf stream is a beauty too.
Like one poster said the performance difference in similar boats
between glass and plastic is quite noticeable.
Plastic scratches much more easily but glass does not like bumps.
Glass can be repaired with reasonable ease, Though my patches are
noticeable.
I own some of each flavour ( Glass and Plastic ) I use them all .
I paddle the plastic Capella most but when I am off on my own I like
the NDK . For speed the NDK has it but the Explorer is a foot and 2
inches longer so that skews things. The NDK Romany is very similar to
the Capella and has comparable rocker; it too is a faster boat than
the Plastic P & H Capella ; but not much.

We have lots of rocky beaches here in Newfoundland. I would start with
a plastic boat if you intend to do a lot of paddling here. If I could
count on a beach or slip most of the time I would go glass.

The only time you will see a speed difference is when you are paddling
with seasoned paddlers that are fast.
When I drop my plastic Capella from the roof rack I hardly swear at
all. I dropped the NDK last week , Glad Mom was not there. The boat
was not hurt.

Eddy Line seames to have come up with a boat that is the best of both
worlds and light as a feather. A friend of mine bought a Night Hauk ,
Now if they made a nice Greenland type craft I would look at it.
Good luck.
If they are close to the same price and you are carefull the glass
boat may do you a lifetime. But plastic can take the odd bang.

I have paddled a glass boat and where I had no choice but to land on a
steep rocky beach (with minimal surf), I would get out while the boat
is in the water (you get good at this after a while) and I tie the
boat to a large rock preferably in the water. This way the kayak is in
the water while I unload it. Of course, there is a risk that the rope
slips off the rock while I am not looking and floats away or that I
drop my gear into the water as I'm unloading it. I have heard of
people carrying small anchors but this is a significant amount of
weight.

Anyone else do something similar? This may seem somewhat extreme but a
loaded glass boat on rocks in the surf zone will take quite a beating.




(Alex McGruer) wrote in message . com...
bb wrote in message . ..
I'm still looking to purchase my first kayak. I'm kinda partial to
the CD Scirocco. I'll no doubt not have enough experience before I
make a purchase to reasonalby tell the difference between a fiberglass
craft and a plastic one as far as performance goes. To me, the price
difference is not that geat. I kinda like the weight difference for
loading and unloading off the truck. I'm told the plastic is much
better at taking the abuse of rocks and oyster bars. So, I'd like to
pose a couple of questions to those more experience kayakers:

Just how much difference is there in performance between plastic and
fiberglass? How fragile are the fiberglass kayaks to abrasion that
I'm likely to encounter kayaking in Florida estuaries?

Thanks for any opinions.

bb

Scirroco is a fine boat, The Gulf stream is a beauty too.
Like one poster said the performance difference in similar boats
between glass and plastic is quite noticeable.
Plastic scratches much more easily but glass does not like bumps.
Glass can be repaired with reasonable ease, Though my patches are
noticeable.
I own some of each flavour ( Glass and Plastic ) I use them all .
I paddle the plastic Capella most but when I am off on my own I like
the NDK . For speed the NDK has it but the Explorer is a foot and 2
inches longer so that skews things. The NDK Romany is very similar to
the Capella and has comparable rocker; it too is a faster boat than
the Plastic P & H Capella ; but not much.

We have lots of rocky beaches here in Newfoundland. I would start with
a plastic boat if you intend to do a lot of paddling here. If I could
count on a beach or slip most of the time I would go glass.

The only time you will see a speed difference is when you are paddling
with seasoned paddlers that are fast.
When I drop my plastic Capella from the roof rack I hardly swear at
all. I dropped the NDK last week , Glad Mom was not there. The boat
was not hurt.

Eddy Line seames to have come up with a boat that is the best of both
worlds and light as a feather. A friend of mine bought a Night Hauk ,
Now if they made a nice Greenland type craft I would look at it.
Good luck.
If they are close to the same price and you are carefull the glass
boat may do you a lifetime. But plastic can take the odd bang.

Alex Horvath wrote:

I have paddled a glass boat and where I had no choice but to land on a
steep rocky beach (with minimal surf), I would get out while the boat
is in the water (you get good at this after a while) and I tie the
boat to a large rock preferably in the water. This way the kayak is in
the water while I unload it. Of course, there is a risk that the rope
slips off the rock while I am not looking and floats away or that I
drop my gear into the water as I'm unloading it. I have heard of
people carrying small anchors but this is a significant amount of
weight.

Anyone else do something similar? This may seem somewhat extreme but a
loaded glass boat on rocks in the surf zone will take quite a beating.

That sounds like an awful lot of gyrations to go through, plus you risk
soaking or losing gear and possibly losing your boat. More importantly,
you also risk personal injury by making trips back and forth in rocky
water. Just land the thing and drag it up on the rocks. It takes a lot
longer for your body to heal than it does to repair a few gelcoat
scratches. Gelcoat is also a lot cheaper than medical bills.

Alex Horvath ) writes:

Anyone else do something similar? This may seem somewhat extreme but a
loaded glass boat on rocks in the surf zone will take quite a beating.

Yes. It's always better to load and unload the boat in the water. It's
also better if you can get in and out of a small boat with the hull afloat
parallel to the shore.

I've been to a couple of used boat sales, beat up rentals being sold by a
canoe manufacturer. The hulls are badly scratched up. That may not be a
problem for knocking about on your own but if you are on a trip with a
group and their hulls are smooth you are easily paddling 10% more to keep
up. That's like paddling 11 hours to their 10.

BW the boat rental business looks like quite a racket. The boats are
rented and get really beat up, then they are sold for half the original
purchase price. It's not just the renters who beat the boats up. I've
seen employees tossing them about like fire wood. The bottoms of the
hulls I've seen at the sales are criss-crossed with deep gouges - more
than a 10% difference in paddling effort there.


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William R. Watt wrote:

That may not be a
problem for knocking about on your own but if you are on a trip with a
group and their hulls are smooth you are easily paddling 10% more to keep
up.

Exactly where did that figure come from? The tests I've seen indicate
that scratched hulls have ~2-5% more drag smooth hulls, with badly
scarred plastic hulls with lots of "hairies" being at the high end. The
difference with fiberglass boats is minuscule.

That's like paddling 11 hours to their 10.

No, it's not like that at all. Even if your 10% figure is correct, it
pertains only to surface friction on the hull. That's only one component
of the total drag that must be overcome by the paddler. Wind resistance
and especially wave making resistance can be very substantial components
of total drag, depending on boat speed and weather conditions.
Realistically, a scratched hull will require you to paddle ~1-2% harder
than a smooth one. Unless you're racing, you'll never notice the difference.

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Alex Horvath ) writes:

Anyone else do something similar? This may seem somewhat extreme but a
loaded glass boat on rocks in the surf zone will take quite a beating.

Yes. It's always better to load and unload the boat in the water. It's
also better if you can get in and out of a small boat with the hull afloat
parallel to the shore.

I've been to a couple of used boat sales, beat up rentals being sold by a
canoe manufacturer. The hulls are badly scratched up. That may not be a
problem for knocking about on your own but if you are on a trip with a
group and their hulls are smooth you are easily paddling 10% more to keep
up. That's like paddling 11 hours to their 10.

BW the boat rental business looks like quite a racket. The boats are
rented and get really beat up, then they are sold for half the original
purchase price. It's not just the renters who beat the boats up. I've
seen employees tossing them about like fire wood. The bottoms of the
hulls I've seen at the sales are criss-crossed with deep gouges - more
than a 10% difference in paddling effort there.

10 % on a glass boat would indicate a lot of scratches.
There remains the ugly fact , you are going to have to bring that boat
ashore and sometimes a host of issues will make you follow the wave
ashore and land on a beach. Most rocks will be rounded but it is
still a bump.
10 % I think remains a little high for scratches, Gouges and haugs in
a plastic boat though may excede that .

I buy boats to use , all my boats have a nick , ding, scratch and my
NDK had a large star crack. I deserve every ding and scratch but the
star crack is a mystery to me.
Glass can be fixed, so can plastic but it is not as easy and not as
likely.
Glass is a nicer boat to paddle.