On 10/5/11 1:05 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.


I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.



--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 2:52 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 3:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.




You mean voltage drop, don't you? Here's a calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

1. Probably.
2. Yup
3. Shop somewhere else or buy their minimum.

P.S. You need to satisfy local building codes irregardless of N E C. You
might even need permits and inspections.

You're a big boy. You should know how to interview and hire contractors.


And a fuse box.


Do you think Krause meant to say 4GA instead of 4/0? I assumed he did.
There is a substantial size difference.

In article ,
says...

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

You need an "electrical handbook" to figure it out???? If so, you are
already in over your head. There are very simple formulas for finding
out just what size wire you need

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Home Depot, Lowes, or Ace Hardware.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

In article ,
says...

On 10/5/11 1:05 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.


I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

Coward.

"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and 115/120
volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same size as
the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is zero.
Cool, huh?

Eisboch

On 10/5/2011 9:25 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

You need an "electrical handbook" to figure it out???? If so, you are
already in over your head. There are very simple formulas for finding
out just what size wire you need

I keep one in my electrical box. It's a Readers Digest or something like
that on home electrical. It keeps me honest I do a lot of plumbing and
electrical for friends, I pride myself for being able to do it right,
and nice and neat too. I have all the tools for snaking through walls
and foundations too. Sometimes it's even fun.


2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Home Depot, Lowes, or Ace Hardware.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

---------------------------------------------

Just to clarify ... I am talking about the wiring that will run from your
genset to the transfer
switch connected to your house power panel. ... You should *definitely*
have an automatic
transfer switch. Worse thing you want is to have commercial power come
back on while
you are running on the generator power and the two are not isolated from
each other.
Bad things can happen.

I like to ask electricians the question about the neutral wire size. Many
don't know why .... they just go by the code book.

Eisboch

On 10/5/11 10:16 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

---------------------------------------------

Just to clarify ... I am talking about the wiring that will run from
your genset to the transfer
switch connected to your house power panel. ... You should *definitely*
have an automatic
transfer switch. Worse thing you want is to have commercial power come
back on while
you are running on the generator power and the two are not isolated from
each other.
Bad things can happen.

I like to ask electricians the question about the neutral wire size.
Many don't know why .... they just go by the code book.

Eisboch

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

Specifically, the new genset will be located at the back of the house,
close to where the metal pipe line from the buried LP gas tank comes out
of the ground and enters the house. The alternative was to place the
genny on the side of the house, adjacent to where the utility power
enters the house and finds the breaker boxes on the other side of the
concrete foundation wall. But that would have required nearly 100' of
buried gas line, and doing that would have been far more expensive than
running a heavy electric wire in the space between the first and ground
levels. That run is between 50' and 60' and is reasonably accessible.

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 10/5/2011 10:03 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.


Lets get your head spinning a little faster. In the above example, if
you shut off one of the 10 amp appliances, 10 amps of current will flow
in the neutral line.
BTW Do you know the diameter of a 4/0 wire?