"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies. He's
most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

In article ,
says...

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies. He's
most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

One factor that, I don't think has been discussed is voltage drop,
further, how much voltage drop can whatever you'll be running take
without problems.

On 10/5/11 12:10 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker
box, assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you
choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies.
He's most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

Well, you know a lot more about 'lectricity than I do, because I
couldn't book a room at that Holiday Inn Express. But we did have a fine
breakfast last week at the Equinox Diner in Mystic, during my annual
visit to Connecticut.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 10/5/11 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:27:14 -0400, X `
wrote:

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

The new code says that if you have an automatic transfer switch, the
generator has to be capable of driving the entire connected load since
you may not be there to do manual load management.


Well, the 17KW genny, according to the factory, produces 70 amps at full
load, and the 20KW, if memory serves, produces 100 amps at full load.
The final bidder is coming by tomorrow for a look-see. I'll see what he
says. The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 10:16:42 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

I like to ask electricians the question about the neutral wire size. Many
don't know why .... they just go by the code book.

They go by the code book because it is the law.
..

Bingo!

On 05/10/2011 5:57 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 2:52 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 3:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.




You mean voltage drop, don't you? Here's a calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

1. Probably.
2. Yup
3. Shop somewhere else or buy their minimum.

P.S. You need to satisfy local building codes irregardless of N E C. You
might even need permits and inspections.

You're a big boy. You should know how to interview and hire contractors.


And a fuse box.


Do you think Krause meant to say 4GA instead of 4/0? I assumed he did.
There is a substantial size difference.

Yep, he might have and a big difference too. In any case, it isn't a
end user task. He be best to get a qualified electrician that knows the
local codes.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/5/11 5:01 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 05/10/2011 5:57 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 2:52 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 3:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.




You mean voltage drop, don't you? Here's a calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

1. Probably.
2. Yup
3. Shop somewhere else or buy their minimum.

P.S. You need to satisfy local building codes irregardless of N E C.
You
might even need permits and inspections.

You're a big boy. You should know how to interview and hire
contractors.


And a fuse box.


Do you think Krause meant to say 4GA instead of 4/0? I assumed he did.
There is a substantial size difference.

Yep, he might have and a big difference too. In any case, it isn't a end
user task. He be best to get a qualified electrician that knows the
local codes.


D'oh. I have no intention of installing a 17KW or 20KW generator at the
house. I've just been interviewing contractors and asking questions. The
install will be done by licensed electricians and a licensed plumber,
the latter one of the plumbers who works for our LP gas supplier. This
will be a replacement for a small capacity genny we've been using to
power a couple of circuits. The new one will run about half the house,
including one of our heat pumps, the well pump, a pair of refrigerators
and various lights and outlets.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 05/10/2011 7:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch

So are you an electrician or engineer? You are correct. Gets even
worse if the generator is 3 phase, but not many homes would use that.

Plus it assume both sides the 2 phase bus is reasonably balanced.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 05/10/2011 8:03 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

He is right though.

Gets even worse when you consider capacitive and inductive phase
variances of appliances.


--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude