Just heard from the boatyard.

The manifold is apparently *not* the culprit responsible for allowing water to
enter cylinder #1. They tested the manifold up to 250 degrees and a certain
level of pressure (number I forgot) and found it to be sound.

Hmm. Head? Head gasket? The boat was running *perfectly*, so that would seem
unlikely.

Will keep the group posted, on the off chance that somebody may be able to
learn from my misfortune.




http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...0011031_eff_us
a_patriot_analysis.php

On 03 Oct 2003 00:28:41 GMT, (Gould 0738) wrote:
The manifold is apparently *not* the culprit responsible for allowing water to
enter cylinder #1. They tested the manifold up to 250 degrees and a certain
level of pressure (number I forgot) and found it to be sound.

Hmm. Head? Head gasket? The boat was running *perfectly*, so that would seem
unlikely.

Will keep the group posted, on the off chance that somebody may be able to
learn from my misfortune.
======================================

Risers? Elbows? If not that, must be the head gasket I'd think.

Does it have cylinder liners? Any chance the block rusted or eroded?

The manifold is apparently *not* the culprit responsible for allowing
water to
enter cylinder #1. They tested the manifold up to 250 degrees and a
certain
level of pressure (number I forgot) and found it to be sound.

What type of engine? Cavitation maybe?

What type of engine? Cavitation maybe?

6 cylinder Perkins diesel inboard.

What type of engine? Cavitation maybe?

6 cylinder Perkins diesel inboard.

Ouch, kinda sounds like it could be cavitation, it happened to my diesel
truck. It was running fine but loosing coolant and I couldn't find a leak.
Then it hydrolocked, coolant was leaking through the cylinder walls.

A few links to check out, must are about trucks, but I assume it could
happen to boats too:

http://www.freeautoadvice.com/diesel/cav.html
http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...ion%20Analysis
http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...on%20Diagnosis

Roland Rabien wrote:
What type of engine? Cavitation maybe?

6 cylinder Perkins diesel inboard.


Ouch, kinda sounds like it could be cavitation, it happened to my diesel
truck. It was running fine but loosing coolant and I couldn't find a leak.
Then it hydrolocked, coolant was leaking through the cylinder walls.

A few links to check out, must are about trucks, but I assume it could
happen to boats too:

http://www.freeautoadvice.com/diesel/cav.html
http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...ion%20Analysis
http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...on%20Diagnosis




All the above Chuck but also, suspect a leaky injector, they can drip
fuel, even more so if you had full tanks for your trip.

Please tell us the outcome of the post Perkum.

K

All the above Chuck but also, suspect a leaky injector, they can drip
fuel, even more so if you had full tanks for your trip.

Please tell us the outcome of the post Perkum.

OK, I'm stumped. How would a leaky injector, (dripping fuel) fill #1 cylinder
with water? If an injector had been leaking fuel into a cylinder, it would not
have cuased this failure, (unless there's a factor I'm failing to consider).
The engine locked on water, not fuel.....important point is that it ran for
15-20 seconds after start up, and it would not have done that if a cylinder was
completely filled with fuel.

Ouch, kinda sounds like it could be cavitation, it happened to my diesel
truck. It was running fine but loosing coolant and I couldn't find a leak.
Then it hydrolocked, coolant was leaking through the cylinder walls.

A few links to check out, must are

It will be interesting to see if that could be the cause, but it wouldn't seem
likely.

My cooling system has been routinely serviced, including the very recent
replacement of a heat exchanger. The engine was running *cooler* with the new
heat exchanger, so It would be hard to suspect heat related damage. The engine
has not been using coolant.

Karl Denninger wrote:
How is that possible when the engine is stopped AND THE
INJECTION PUMP, WHICH IS A POSITIVE DISPLACEMENT DEVICE, IS NOT RUNNING.

Rhetorical question considering the source of the intial "idea."

Rick

Gould 0738 wrote:
All the above Chuck but also, suspect a leaky injector, they can drip
fuel, even more so if you had full tanks for your trip.

Please tell us the outcome of the post Perkum.


OK, I'm stumped. How would a leaky injector, (dripping fuel) fill #1 cylinder
with water? If an injector had been leaking fuel into a cylinder, it would not
have cuased this failure, (unless there's a factor I'm failing to consider).
The engine locked on water, not fuel.....important point is that it ran for
15-20 seconds after start up, and it would not have done that if a cylinder was
completely filled with fuel.

Sorry Chuck I was unaware you were positive it was "water" that caused
the trouble & I'm sure you had mentioned it ran for what? 20 seconds??

I only suggested the injector because it can happen, your pump operates
at 3 levels, the lift pump will draw fuel from the tank & give it to the
pump at about 7psi, the next stage is a vane pump inside the injector
pump which takes it to a circulation pressure of about 100 psi (varies
with power & revs) the last stage is the pistons being pushed together
to create the injection pressure, say 2000 psi.

If fuel is available even at slight positive pressure it will find it's
way through the system till it gets to the injectors (all the valving is
to stop it going the other way) & if you have an injector where the
pintle is worn it can drip fuel. Especially if your full for holiday
trip tanks have a head of pressure up to injector level.

Assuming you have a CAV system (Perkins likely or the similar Bosch)
the standard test is;
(a) Normal pintle injectors, subject the injector to a pressure of 10
ats below opening pressure (on a jig), after 60 seconds the fuel stain
produced on blotting paper held below the nozzle shouldn't exceed 12mm
in diam.

(b) Pencil injectors are allowed 3 to 20 drops of fuel over 15 seconds;
in the same premises.

It's not relevant because as you say you know it was water in there &
as I said all the above, but whatever get the injectors serviced before
you trust them on your rebuild!!!

K