Hello,
I'm looking at the Perception Eclipse (or possibly the Shadow, depending on
the fit - I'm rather tall and skinny) and was wondering if anyone has any
stories to tell about this boat (good or bad). In general, I'm looking for
a decent touring kayak in the 16' to 17' range that doesn't cost a fortune
(and the Eclipse is pretty pricey, even for the plastic model). I'm always
open to alternative suggestions.

What will I be using it for? Day trips down rivers near the chicago area
or southern wisconsin, small, medium, and large lakes (including L. Michigan).


--
Claudia Engel (no emails please)
aka: Engelchen

in article , Claudia Engel at
lid wrote on 7/6/04 12:03 AM:

Hello,
I'm looking at the Perception Eclipse (or possibly the Shadow, depending on
the fit - I'm rather tall and skinny) and was wondering if anyone has any
stories to tell about this boat (good or bad). In general, I'm looking for
a decent touring kayak in the 16' to 17' range that doesn't cost a fortune
(and the Eclipse is pretty pricey, even for the plastic model). I'm always
open to alternative suggestions.

What will I be using it for? Day trips down rivers near the chicago area
or southern wisconsin, small, medium, and large lakes (including L. Michigan).



Hi Claudia.

I find the Perception plastic to be a bit soft and flimsy for the
construction of a boat this size. It's heavy. Most of the 16 - 17 foot
kayaks in roto molded plastic are in the 55 to 65 lb range. The Eclipse is
at the heavy end of that range if not over it. I paddled one only once but
found it difficult to keep on course without the rudder deployed. It was not
a particularyl windy day. While the kayak is almost always seen with a
rudder, I prefer to use leans and strokes to control the boat. I also
prefer the solid feel of fixed foot pegs. The Eclipse uses a sliding foot
peg system to control the rudder. The outer hatch cover system seems fussy
and over designed to me but I would probably trust them since they use an
inner neoprene cover to keep the hatches dry. Overall the boat seems nicely
rigged with deck cords and perimeter lines. Don't know if there are bow and
stern painters but they would be easy to add if you felt you needed them.
The seat adjusts a few inches fore and aft but the comfort of that seat is
totally subjective and I won't comment on that. I'd be willing to wager
that your butt and my butt will have divergent opinions on comfort.

I've been paddling a 17' Prijon Kodiak. It's plastic and wighs 58lbs. It's
probably much to wide for you but the Prijon Seayak might be worth your
while to test out.

What other kayaks have you tried? How long have you been paddling? Is this
your first boat?

Where are you shopping? In the Chicago area?

Cheers

DV

On 6-Jul-2004, Claudia Engel wrote:

I'm looking at the Perception Eclipse (or possibly the Shadow,

Both of these are a poor excuse for a kayak. They _have_ to have
a rudder, as they become uncontrollable without one once the wind
picks up. There are lots of good kayaks out there - keep looking.

A second-hand Solstice GTS is a decent kayak, but it tends to track
stiffly. I can't help you with plastic kayaks, since I don't keep
track of what's out there in plastic. There are some nice plastic
kayaks that have come out recently. The Tempest and Chatham come
to mind and the older Capella are all good. None have a rudder,
though, and come with skegs. A rudder is unnecessary in a good
kayak and the skeg adds plenty of weathercocking control. Rent
one to try out before buying.


Mike

Claudia Engel wrote in
:

Hello,
I'm looking at the Perception Eclipse (or possibly the Shadow,
depending on the fit - I'm rather tall and skinny) and was wondering if
anyone has any stories to tell about this boat (good or bad).

If you're thin the Eclipse will be much too wide for you. The Shadow would
be a better fit but I think that there are quite a few better plastic
touring boats out there.

As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest both
seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that looks real
interesting is the VCP Aquanaut RM. I rather like the VCP Avocet RM. I
spent four days renting one awhile back and it did pretty much everything I
wanted. It could be faster but it's not especially sluggish either for a
plastic boat. I'd also check out a P&H Capella RM if you can find one.

In
general, I'm looking for a decent touring kayak in the 16' to 17' range
that doesn't cost a fortune (and the Eclipse is pretty pricey, even for
the plastic model). I'm always open to alternative suggestions.

If price is a concern look at the used market. Lots of people that have
bought decent plastic touring kayaks end up buying decent composite touring
kayaks after a few years (or less) and sell them to help defray the cost of
a new composite boat. You can also find used fiberglass boats for about the
same or less than a new plastic boat.

John Fereira writes:
As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest both
seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that looks real

Thanks John (and everyone else) for their very helpful replies I still
rather like the eclipse, but the Wilderness Systems Tempest 170 has pretty
much taken its place on my "short list". I'm really impressed with this one,
and, though I doubt there's anyplace around here where I can try one on the
water, at least I can get a good look at it and compare it to other boats,
maybe have a seat in it to see how it fits.

--
Claudia Engel (no emails please)
aka: Engelchen

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 00:27:25 GMT, Claudia Engel
wrote:

John Fereira writes:
As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest both
seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that looks real

Thanks John (and everyone else) for their very helpful replies I still
rather like the eclipse, but the Wilderness Systems Tempest 170 has pretty
much taken its place on my "short list". I'm really impressed with this one,
and, though I doubt there's anyplace around here where I can try one on the
water, at least I can get a good look at it and compare it to other boats,
maybe have a seat in it to see how it fits.

IMO, the Eclipse would make a great expedition boat or a "big boy"
boat. To me, at 150 lb, it seemed quite unstable empty, but when
loaded down it was bombproof.

The Tempest was a really sweet boat, tracked like it was on rails, but
carved leaned turns very tightly. Its much tighter in the cockpit,
especially in the thigh area.

Ted C.

"Claudia Engel" wrote in message
...
John Fereira writes:
As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest both
seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that looks real

Thanks John (and everyone else) for their very helpful replies I still
rather like the eclipse, but the Wilderness Systems Tempest 170 has pretty
much taken its place on my "short list". I'm really impressed with this
one,
and, though I doubt there's anyplace around here where I can try one on
the
water, at least I can get a good look at it and compare it to other boats,
maybe have a seat in it to see how it fits.

--
Claudia Engel (no emails please)
aka: Engelchen

FWIW, I recently spent a little time paddling an Eclipse and Tempest 170.
The Tempest is more stable, has better tracking, is more comfortable, and
faster than the Eclipse. Less weathercocking, too. It's a more attractive
boat that basically performs significantly better than the Eclipse. Far
better boat, IMO.

Claudia Engel wrote in
:

John Fereira writes:
As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest
both seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that
looks real

Thanks John (and everyone else) for their very helpful replies I
still rather like the eclipse, but the Wilderness Systems Tempest 170
has pretty much taken its place on my "short list". I'm really
impressed with this one, and, though I doubt there's anyplace around
here where I can try one on the water, at least I can get a good look
at it and compare it to other boats, maybe have a seat in it to see how
it fits.

I haven't paddled the Tempest 170 but I've heard that it has quite a bit
more volume than the 165. You might need the leg room in the 170 but the
cockpit may be a bit too roomy otherwise. I *have* paddled the 165 and
liked it's manoeveribility.

"John Fereira" wrote in message
.. .
Claudia Engel wrote in
:

John Fereira writes:
As Mike mentioned, the Necky Chatham and Wilderness Systems Tempest
both seem to be hot models these days. Another plastic boat that
looks real

Thanks John (and everyone else) for their very helpful replies I
still rather like the eclipse, but the Wilderness Systems Tempest 170
has pretty much taken its place on my "short list". I'm really
impressed with this one, and, though I doubt there's anyplace around
here where I can try one on the water, at least I can get a good look
at it and compare it to other boats, maybe have a seat in it to see how
it fits.

I have paddled a plastic Eclipse for 3 years now. Loaded it is a fine boat,
but empty, even my 220 pounds cannot get it to behave well. It sits too
high out of the water, and catches EVERY little bit of wind. Unless you
plan on loading it for expedition paddling, look at something else.
Perception's Avatar 16 is a much better boat for day trips and sheer
performance, without costing too much. My wife has one, and I find it MUCH
more controllable.

Jim Hill