On Dec 13, 6:23*pm, Black Cloud wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:21:04 -0500, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:56:56 -0800 (PST), "*e#c"
wrote:

On Dec 13, 1:31*am, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:28:12 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, *AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. *And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) *you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.

Bleeds them out for better butchering, too!

wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:43:02 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man
Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.
You go first ;-)
I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

Un Huh.
Harry's a pussy. A lot louder? Sure.

-HB

On 12/13/11 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:23:35 -0500, Black
wrote:

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.

Israeli hit men seem to like .22s but they are doing the same thing as
you. putting the gun up against the victim's head and shooting.
On the other hand a shot to the center of mass is a pretty iffy thing.
Reagan had a .22 round in a lung and barely even knew he was shot.

"Civilian" gun fights/attacks usually take place at 15 feet or less. I
asked about this when I first started shooting at the local cop firing
range and noticed most of the cops firing at targets seven to 20 feet
away. Massad F. Ayoob often talks or writes about short-range firing
challenges. At close range, even a .22LR pistol will be deadly in the
hands of a good shooter. The advantages of the light-caliber handgun in
"combat" are low recoil, little muzzle flip, and fast cyclic rate.

My custom CZ is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and it also has
the fastest cycling rate. I've shot .40's, 9's, 10's, 45's, 22's, 25's,
380's, et cetera. If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/oR82kN

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:28:13 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.

==

In what way is it customized?

On 12/13/2011 10:01 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:28:13 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.

==

In what way is it customized?


He has seen pictures of several... Probably get him to re-post one if
you are lucky snerk

On Dec 13, 8:28*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/13/11 9:09 PM, wrote:







On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:23:35 -0500, Black
wrote:

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) *you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.

Israeli hit men seem to like .22s but they are doing the same thing as
you. putting the gun up against the victim's head and shooting.
On the other hand a shot to the center of mass is a pretty iffy thing.
Reagan had a .22 round in a lung and barely even knew he was shot.

"Civilian" gun fights/attacks usually take place at 15 feet or less. I
asked about this when I first started shooting at the local cop firing
range and noticed most of the cops firing at targets seven to 20 feet
away. Massad F. Ayoob often talks or writes about short-range firing
challenges. At close range, even a .22LR pistol will be deadly in the
hands of a good shooter. The advantages of the light-caliber handgun in
"combat" are low recoil, little muzzle flip, and fast cyclic rate.

My custom CZ is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and it also has
the fastest cycling rate. I've shot .40's, 9's, 10's, 45's, 22's, 25's,
380's, et cetera. If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.



Atthat instant, I'd be happy to grab what was available!

?8^ 0

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 12/13/11 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:23:35 -0500, Black
wrote:

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.

Israeli hit men seem to like .22s but they are doing the same thing as
you. putting the gun up against the victim's head and shooting.
On the other hand a shot to the center of mass is a pretty iffy thing.
Reagan had a .22 round in a lung and barely even knew he was shot.

"Civilian" gun fights/attacks usually take place at 15 feet or less. I
asked about this when I first started shooting at the local cop firing
range and noticed most of the cops firing at targets seven to 20 feet
away. Massad F. Ayoob often talks or writes about short-range firing
challenges. At close range, even a .22LR pistol will be deadly in the
hands of a good shooter. The advantages of the light-caliber handgun in
"combat" are low recoil, little muzzle flip, and fast cyclic rate.

My custom CZ is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and it also has
the fastest cycling rate. I've shot .40's, 9's, 10's, 45's, 22's, 25's,
380's, et cetera. If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.

I think "they" got the message.
Don't even think about ****ing with Harry.
He's one bad dude.
tee hee

On 08/12/2011 4:39 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 16:40:48 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:04:39 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

2 shot dead on Virginia Tech campus
By NBC News and msnbc.com staff

BLACKSBURG, Va. -- Two people, including a campus police officer, were
shot dead Thursday at Virginia Tech, where 33 people were killed in 2007
in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history, a university
spokesman said.


ah, the ritght to keep and bear arms...100 dead cops a year cant be
wrong

Let's see if I follow this: if we passed a law against guns, criminals
wouldn't be shooting cops. Is that about it?

Not what happens in Canada. Cops and criminals have guns and most
non-criminals have no defense.

Hell, an RCMP cop even wasted his wife and to be sure put three into 9mm
slugs in her in cold blood, only being tried for second degree murder.
Hasn't even been tried yet.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...er-charge.html

Maybe cops should give them up too, and the military.

And funny, I bet more dies this weekend in DWI, guess we should ban
booze and cars?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...der-trial.html

Don't forget baseball bats, knives, bow and arrows, sling shots, cross
bows, chain saws, broad axes, hatchets, hair spray (and BIC lighters),
air craft, Drano and ammonia, arsenic, ammonia nitrate, and 1000s of
other things.

And of course ban boats and beer. After all the idiot in the next link
managed to park a speed boat into a stationary houseboat mudering one,
hospitalizing 8. Incompetent police dragged their ass, as while
watching him open a beer in front of them they didn't ask for a blood test.

http://www.chbcnews.ca/speedboat+dri...641/story.html

But at least a year and a half later with public pressure they finally
charged the ass hole.

I wish the anti-gun crowd can hear themselves think. There is more ways
to kill a person than can be counted. People kill people.

--
Corrupt USA, Euro Bank and Military Regime, funding both sides of
terrorism for profit and debt-tax slavery.

On 12/13/11 10:01 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:28:13 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.

==

In what way is it customized?


It started out as one of these:

http://czcustom.com/CZ75_SP01_SHADOW_CustomShop.aspx

I nixed the "aluminum grips." I don't like the way they feel.

In addition, the pistol was converted from double to single action at my
request, with a straight trigger. Trigger pull was lightened. A custom
hammer was installed and tuned. There are a couple of other bits of
competition gunsmithing that were applied.

Another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTGym...h_response_rev

Fast firing Shadow, but not as fast as mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpFIY...eature=related

As I've stated, the gun cycle quickly, with very little muzzle flip.







--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/oR82kN

On 12/14/11 12:16 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:28:13 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/13/11 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 19:23:35 -0500, Black
wrote:

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.

Israeli hit men seem to like .22s but they are doing the same thing as
you. putting the gun up against the victim's head and shooting.
On the other hand a shot to the center of mass is a pretty iffy thing.
Reagan had a .22 round in a lung and barely even knew he was shot.

"Civilian" gun fights/attacks usually take place at 15 feet or less. I
asked about this when I first started shooting at the local cop firing
range and noticed most of the cops firing at targets seven to 20 feet
away. Massad F. Ayoob often talks or writes about short-range firing
challenges. At close range, even a .22LR pistol will be deadly in the
hands of a good shooter. The advantages of the light-caliber handgun in
"combat" are low recoil, little muzzle flip, and fast cyclic rate.

My custom CZ is the most accurate pistol I've ever shot, and it also has
the fastest cycling rate. I've shot .40's, 9's, 10's, 45's, 22's, 25's,
380's, et cetera. If I were in a civilian combat situation, my sidearm
of choice would be my customized CZ.


In your CCW class, did they do the "man with a knife" drill?
At 15 feet the guy with the knife usually stabs the guy with the gun
before he gets off a shot.
There is a huge difference between what you do at the range and what
happens when you are in a real fight. If the person you shoot,
actually lives 10 seconds after he is shot, there may be two bodies on
the ground when the cops get there. That is why .40s and .45s have it
all over a 38 or 9mm.

Bear in mind your assailant may be stoned on some drug that prevents
him from responding in the way you expect. If this is a wild animal,
they may just get more aggressive when they are shot and you need a
hit that actually knocks them down.


I don't typically walk around Southern Maryland "heeled," as they used
to say, even though I have permits to do so. If there's an intruder who
breaks in here at night, he's a "home invader," and is going to be shot
as soon as I see him, either with a pistol or with a shotgun.

The 9mm, by the way, is not my only handgun. I do have a few larger
caliber pistols, but I shoot 9mm the most.



--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/oR82kN