In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:06:22 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:54:26 -0500, wrote:

We came across a bear crossing the road last Sunday. I had to hit the
brakes to avoid hitting it. It didn't occur to me to whip out a gun and
shoot it.

Most pocket handguns (38/9mm) would just **** off a bear.

Sort of depends on the bear, eh? Or have you surveyed florida bears?

The bears around here are pretty tame. I have not heard of any showing
any aggression and people are chasing them out of their yards once or
twice a month.
It is still an animal that is 150-200 pounds and has the ability to do
some damage if you get him ****ed at you. I doubt a 9mm is going to
stop one before he gets to you.

I've camped in a tent in grizzly country many times, I've camped in a
tent in cougar country many times, and I've camped in a tent in
wilderness areas so remote Harry couldn't dream of going there. I've
never carried a gun and feel no need to. Common sense and a working
brain will work!

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:33 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:06:22 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:54:26 -0500, wrote:

We came across a bear crossing the road last Sunday. I had to hit the
brakes to avoid hitting it. It didn't occur to me to whip out a gun and
shoot it.

Most pocket handguns (38/9mm) would just **** off a bear.

Sort of depends on the bear, eh? Or have you surveyed florida bears?

The bears around here are pretty tame. I have not heard of any showing
any aggression and people are chasing them out of their yards once or
twice a month.
It is still an animal that is 150-200 pounds and has the ability to do
some damage if you get him ****ed at you. I doubt a 9mm is going to
stop one before he gets to you.

Depends on the bear and the shooter, eh? I've seen bear tracks out at
the Shenandoah and a buddy with an adjacent property has a natural rock
cave on his property that families of smaller bears use.

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.


--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:58:11 -0500, wrote:

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

===

We could sell a lot of tickets to that event. :-)

On 12/12/11 5:38 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:58:11 -0500, wrote:

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

===

We could sell a lot of tickets to that event. :-)


Especially if you were wearing a bear suit.

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.


I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.


..40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

--
http://flickr.com/gp/hakr/8272ug

North Star wrote:
On Dec 12, 9:29 am, wrote:
On 12/12/2011 7:45 AM, BAR wrote:





In raweb.com, .
@..com says...
On 12/11/2011 2:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:16:42 -0500, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 10:46:07 -0500,
wrote:
You seem to be extremely interested in getting Mary Jane legalized.
Do you have an appetite for the stuff?
The real reason a lot of us want to see this legalized is because the
war on drugs has become one of the worst examples of a bloated
government program that simply wastes tons of money and returns
nothing to the tax payer.
The blow back has resulted in some of the worst constitutional
assaults
(profiling,.warrentless car searches, warrantless aerial surveillance
with IR imagery, warrantless wire taps, financial monitoring and the
list goes on)
Most of the abuses in the patriot act have been SOP for the DEA for
years.
===
In addition to that, the "war on drugs" has become very much like
prohibition. The demand is there, the consumers are there, so a huge
illicit and illegal industry has sprung up to keep the market
supplied. Profits of this industry are artificially inflated
because of the illegality, and because of the huge profits, corruption
and crime run rampant everywhere the drug trade operates. Like
prohibition the supporting criminal supply network is far worse than
the original problem. Everyone wanted to make drugs illegal to
protect their children but the kids are getting drugs anyway along
with the societal problems of the drug industry which have become
pervasive.
The war on drugs is unwinable.
The war on crime is unwinable.
The war on terrorism is unwinable.
Wars, the way we fight them, are unwinable.
Let's abandon those efforts.
We should also can all laws and the IRS code in favor of the ten
commandments. Then we won't need no steeenkin lawyers no more.
Require everyone 18 and over to carry a loaded pistol.
Yup. Condition 1. Then see how ****heads like Krause behave.

--
1-20-13 The end of an error- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Would packin' heat make y'all feel like big brave men?
It works for Harry so it's got to be good for everyone!

-HB (Snacks!)

Drifter wrote:
On 12/12/2011 9:57 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 12/12/11 9:53 AM, JustWait wrote:
On 12/12/2011 9:51 AM, Drifter wrote:
On 12/12/2011 9:25 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 12/12/11 9:18 AM, North Star wrote:
On Dec 12, 9:29 am, wrote:
On 12/12/2011 7:45 AM, BAR wrote:





In raweb.com, .
@..com says...

On 12/11/2011 2:27 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:16:42 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 10:46:07 -0500,

wrote:

You seem to be extremely interested in getting Mary Jane
legalized.
Do you have an appetite for the stuff?

The real reason a lot of us want to see this legalized is
because
the
war on drugs has become one of the worst examples of a bloated
government program that simply wastes tons of money and returns
nothing to the tax payer.
The blow back has resulted in some of the worst constitutional
assaults
(profiling,.warrentless car searches, warrantless aerial
surveillance
with IR imagery, warrantless wire taps, financial monitoring
and
the
list goes on)

Most of the abuses in the patriot act have been SOP for the DEA
for
years.

===

In addition to that, the "war on drugs" has become very much
like
prohibition. The demand is there, the consumers are there, so a
huge
illicit and illegal industry has sprung up to keep the market
supplied. Profits of this industry are artificially inflated
because of the illegality, and because of the huge profits,
corruption
and crime run rampant everywhere the drug trade operates. Like
prohibition the supporting criminal supply network is far worse
than
the original problem. Everyone wanted to make drugs illegal to
protect their children but the kids are getting drugs anyway
along
with the societal problems of the drug industry which have
become
pervasive.

The war on drugs is unwinable.
The war on crime is unwinable.
The war on terrorism is unwinable.
Wars, the way we fight them, are unwinable.
Let's abandon those efforts.
We should also can all laws and the IRS code in favor of the ten
commandments. Then we won't need no steeenkin lawyers no more.

Require everyone 18 and over to carry a loaded pistol.

Yup. Condition 1. Then see how ****heads like Krause behave.

--
1-20-13 The end of an error- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Would packin' heat make y'all feel like big brave men?


Being in the navy didn't...

I doubt if navy men would need to strap on heat to take a walk in the
Virginia woods, for protection against , get this, dogs. Cowboy Harry
doesn't feel safe unless he is surrounded by his guns.


He carries for DOGS!?? Holy ****, my 90 year old dad just carried a
walking stick for that... What an asshole. All you got to do is wave a
stick at most dogs and they will run, but Harry Krause is just dying to
see what he can do to flesh with his widdew capguns weather it be a
human or now even an innocent dog... asshole...


Hehehe. Morons. We're talking about packs of feral dogs loose in the
Shenandoah hills and valleys. There were several packs running loose a
couple of years ago, and there were attacks on hikers. One hiker and his
buddies had just returned from a major trail to a parking area and was
attacked and severely bitten by feral dogs.

The "expertise" you assholes don't have is just...astonishing.

These packs of feral dogs, if they are still around, would love to snack
on a greasy little **** like you, iSnotty.


One person suffers a dog bite and you strap on heat like Rambo. What
kind of pussy are you?

Paranoid, obviously.

-HB (Pistachios!)

On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:









On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

On Dec 12, 10:28*pm, Tim wrote:
On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-









can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, *AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. *And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

The 1917 is box stock with a horrendous trigger pull so I don't shot
it much, but the AMT has been tricked by a gun smith who himself
shoots silhouette competition.

Really nice pistol

On Dec 13, 1:31*am, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:28:12 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:





On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so.. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, *AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. *And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal.