In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:06:19 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 12, 10:28*pm, Tim wrote:
On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-









can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, *AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. *And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

The 1917 is box stock with a horrendous trigger pull so I don't shot
it much, but the AMT has been tricked by a gun smith who himself
shoots silhouette competition.

Really nice pistol

I have a SS Ruger KP90 but I still like a nice 1911

My daughters liked shooting the .45 (1911 Colt) over the S&W 9mm.

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:28:12 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:

On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:









On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.



I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.

Be nice to those WD disks. My sister works for that company.

On 12/13/11 1:31 AM, wrote:



I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.


I'll surely keep that in mind when I'm out shooting hard drives.

On Dec 13, 12:34*am, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:06:19 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:









On Dec 12, 10:28*pm, Tim wrote:
On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-

can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:50:22 -0500 , wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:43:02 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:


On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to
stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to
do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs
of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to
drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for
target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain
hollowpoints:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.


I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find
out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center
fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled
occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2
legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them,
simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will
make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.


.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is
also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone
who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue
in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15
feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle,
even if
I am firing rapidly.




Un Huh.

You should have given the bozo the customary snerk. I wonder how well
he does with a target who refuses to stand still?

--
2012, the end of an error:-) Yee Haw!

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:33 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:06:22 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 3:47 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 11:54:26 -0500, wrote:

We came across a bear crossing the road last Sunday. I had to hit the
brakes to avoid hitting it. It didn't occur to me to whip out a gun and
shoot it.

Most pocket handguns (38/9mm) would just **** off a bear.

Sort of depends on the bear, eh? Or have you surveyed florida bears?

The bears around here are pretty tame. I have not heard of any showing
any aggression and people are chasing them out of their yards once or
twice a month.
It is still an animal that is 150-200 pounds and has the ability to do
some damage if you get him ****ed at you. I doubt a 9mm is going to
stop one before he gets to you.

Depends on the bear and the shooter, eh? I've seen bear tracks out at
the Shenandoah and a buddy with an adjacent property has a natural rock
cave on his property that families of smaller bears use.

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

Harry is such a friggin' coward that he uses special ammo for
"defense"!!!!

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.


I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

Oh, Harry knows much more about guns than the FBI......

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first ;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.


I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.


.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I told you Harry knows more than the FBI about guns!!!

In article ,
says...

On 12/13/11 1:31 AM, wrote:



I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.


I'll surely keep that in mind when I'm out shooting hard drives.

And of COURSE Harry completely misses the point...

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:21:04 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 22:56:56 -0800 (PST), "*e#c"
wrote:

On Dec 13, 1:31*am, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 20:28:12 -0800 (PST), Tim
wrote:





On Dec 12, 6:43*pm, X ` Man dump-on-conservati...@anywhere-you-
can.com wrote:
On 12/12/11 7:22 PM, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:11:09 -0500, X ` Man
*wrote:

On 12/12/11 4:58 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 16:43:45 -0500, X ` Man

Oh, a 200-pound mammal, man or otherwise, is not that hard to stop with
a few shots from a 9mm pistol.

You go first *;-)

I haven't had to shoot any animals and I hope I never have to do so. I'm
not concerned about bears out at the Shenandoah, but the packs of wild
dogs concern lots of residents and visitors out there.

I've read enough about bullet impact to know that if I had to drop a
thug with a 9mm, I could do so. I only use the "cheap" ammo for target
practice. For defense, I use Speer Gold Dot 9MM +P 124 grain hollowpoints:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=YcwaMwB13Gg

I don't like the higher grain count 9MM rounds.

I think if you had actually shot a few animals you would find out they
are a lot tougher that you think.
It is no accident that people use slugs in shotguns or center fire
rifles to hunt bears and a bear hunter still gets mauled occasionally
by a bear with a couple of bullet holes in him.

9mm is barely enough to call a self defense round against 2 legged
animals, even with high performance bullets. Cops use them, simply
because of the perception that more rounds in the magazine will make
up for mediocre terminal performance.
It is no accident that the FBI uses a 40 cal.

.40 S&W produces too much muzzle flip for real accuracy and is also a
lot louder than 9mm. 9 mm is a fine self-defense round for someone who
knows how to shoot a pistol. Terminal performance is not an issue in
most armed encounters, where the range typically is less than 15 feet.
At that distance, I can put 10 rounds in a damned small circle, even if
I am firing rapidly.

I don't have a 9mm but I do have a .380 and yes, at 15 ft. I can put
about 3 rd.s in a 3" circle. However, I also have a 45ACP AMT
Hardballer, *AND an original 1917 issue Colt 1911A . I use hand
drilled, hollow point, lead wad cutters in both.

And with either. I can put 1 slug through a 3" circle. *And in a "have
to" situation, that's all that would be necessary.

I have a .380 I can hit things with too but I am not expecting a lot
of stopping power out of it. This is a .380 round bouncing off a hard
drive.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Bad%20W-D.jpg

A .45 will get the job done.

22's are far more lethal. It has been proven. They enter one place,
bounce around, and exit another. Very Lethal

.223 perhaps but not really true of the .22rf.

They can cause fatal damage but it is not really immediate and in a
serious social situation (or a bear attack) you want immediate
results

On the farm, we would use a .22 to stun a steer unconscious by shooting him in the forehead. Then,
when he was down, slit it's throat. Pretty humane way of killing the critter.