"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

If you live or work with a smoker, be aware that their habit is having
an impact on your health:

The CDC reports that breathing secondhand smoke has an instant effect on
a person's cardiovascular system. Even a slight exposure can damage the
blood vessels and cause blood platelets to become stickier. Over time,
these changes can result in heart disease and heart attacks.

People regularly exposed to secondhand smoke have a 20 to 30% greater
chance of developing lung cancer than those who are not exposed as
often.

Cigarette smoke contains around 70 cancer-causing chemicals including
formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic, ammonia, and hydrogen
cyanide. Even brief exposure can damage your body cells leaving them
prone to cancerous changes.

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Children

The effects of secondhand smoke can be long-lasting for our littlest
ones:

According to the Office of the Surgeon General, babies living in a home
where a parent smokes are at a higher risk of sudden infant death
syndrome. It is believed that the chemicals in the smoke interfere with
the way the brain regulates breathing.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports that
children of all ages who are constantly exposed to secondhand smoke are
more likely to suffer from asthma, respiratory problems such as
pneumonia and bronchitis, and middle ear infections.

Children who grow up around smokers are likely to have smaller lungs and
decreased lung function compared to those who come from non-smoking
homes


http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ondhand_smoke/
health_effects/

Exposure to secondhand smoke has immediate adverse effects on the
cardiovascular system and can cause coronary heart disease.1,3
?Secondhand smoke causes an estimated 46,000 premature deaths from heart
disease each year in the United States among nonsmokers.4
?Nonsmokers who are exposed to secondhand smoke at home or at work
increase their risk of developing heart disease by 25?30%.


Light 'em up, everybody! Harm your spouse, harm your children, harm me
and my children because you think you enjoy a stinking filthy habit.
I've been there, and am damned glad I had the stones to quit. If not for
me, for my family.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

I'm not offended by someone smoking

===

I am.

As a reformed 3 pack a day guy, I find the smell highly offensive.

One of my former colleagues lost his wife to lung cancer when she was
in her 50s, never having smoked a day in her life. She had spent a
lot of time in offices with a lot of smokers around her however.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke

Do you have independent peer reviewed studies that prove that 2nd hand
smoke from cigarettes kills people?

On 2/25/2012 12:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:25:08 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

Someone else being obese doesn't harm YOUR health. Being around a smoker
does. I'm not offended by someone smoking, I just don't want mine or my
children's health compromised.


http://www.epa.gov/smokefree/healtheffects.html

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...condhand-smoke


"Both mainstream and SHS contain about 20 chemicals that, in high
concentrations, cause breast cancer in rodents"

The operative words are "High concentrations"
A whiff of cigarette smoke is no more dangerous than a whiff of diesel
smoke or that blue cloud coming from a 2 stroke outboard.
The flaw in all of these studies is they do not specify the
concentration that is dangerous. Just smelling something does not mean
the concentration will hurt you. That is true of EVERY chemical OSHA
regulates.

That's because the regulations on tobacco are because of feelings, not
facts like all of the other regulated substances.

On 2/24/12 12:43 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 10:43:01 -0500, wrote:

In ,
says...

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.

Where is the proof that people die from second hand smoke.

http://tinyurl.com/6t3p65o

The Effects of Secondhand Smoke on Adults

There is a lot of conjecture out there but they never put any real
numbers on it. Virtually every other pollutant has OSHA established
threshold limit values but cigarette smoke is seen to have a level of
zero. Are they really trying to say cigarette smoke is more dangerous
than all of the other chemicals that OSHA regulates?
The issue is simply that non smokers or "quit" smokers are offended if
they even SEE someone smoking. It is just about the only class of
people who can be discriminated against with impunity.

If you are simply using the health care cost issue, obesity is a far
bigger problem..

You're working awfully hard to rationalize the filthy, offensive habit
of smoking.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:03:59 -0500, iBoaterer wrote:

How does a
morbidly obese person affect you second hand like smokers do?

Higher health care costs?
Ever been stuck in the center seat on an airliner between two fat
****ers ? I would rather they were skinny people, smoking.

I've already been over that. With smokers, you not only get the benefit
of having to pay for their continued healthcare, you also get the
benefit of a high risk of cancer, heart disease, stroke, emphysema, etc.
by being forced to inhale their smoke. No other disease or addiction
does that.


-----------------------------------------------
Smokers have been shown to have less of an overall societal cost than non
smokers in some studies. They die earlier with less end of live cost, and
less social security payout. Plus the enormous amount of taxes they have
paid to smoke. Lots more than the health insurance for smokers only would
have cost. Plus look how much money they put in circulation. One of the
reasons Altria has been one of the best investments since 1970.

Then you're not taking into account the toll from second hand smoke.


-------------------------------------------

No studies have really proved that much damage from 2nd hand smoke. but the
$2-3+ tax on each pack of cigarettes will pay for any extra societal costs.
And I think NY has about an $8 a pack tax. NYC adds to that some more tax.
Might as well agree to a carbon tax, extra boat taxes Maybe $2k a year for a
powered recreational boat. Boat not really needed and some of those people
who think that kayaks and man powered vessels should be the only thing on
waterways. Where you going to stop excess taxing? NY hid their
overspending by adding a couple bucks tax to each pack. Why should just one
segment pay for the rest overspending? Now that you agree to a tax for
consuming an unhealthy substance, please cough up 200% tax on each McD
burger and 500% on fries. Probably McD and Burger King and Jack kill more
than all the tobacco companies combined. Obesity is an epidemic!