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#212
posted to rec.boats
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What Will GE Force Its People To Drive Now
On 3/6/2012 3:28 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In raweb.com, 5@ 5.com says... On 3/6/2012 2:01 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:53:26 -0500, wrote: In , says... On 3/6/2012 9:11 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:06:14 -0500, X ` Man wrote: On 3/5/12 7:43 PM, JustWait wrote: On 3/5/2012 7:26 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , says... On 3/4/2012 5:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, wrote: The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The problem is that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet. The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive downsized with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric needs needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer period of time and distance. === I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we seem to disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a loaf. Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say yes. The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road starts to get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like charging stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative energy like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this out to the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg syndrome where you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg and vice versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation needs would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The problem is price of course, and prices will not come down until there is economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs amortized across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the price was right. It would be great for running short errands and the like, running on gas for the occasional longer trip. The problem Wayne, is the administration is trying to make these cars feasible by raising the cost of the alternatives so they have talking points... Right now it takes almost ten years to recover the price of the car, when they get the gas up to 8 dollars a gallon, they can say "look, you recover your investment in three years!"... They said they were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by the price of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are spending is killing us.... New technology bad.... FOX tell me. Never install version 1.0 software. Never purchase the first versions of anything. Let someone else work out the bugs. What is Plum talking about with the "Fox tell me" crap.. The desperate whining of someone with no platform.. "The difference between Engineers and Technicians is, Engineers can draw it on paper, it takes a technician to actually make it work...  More of the undereducated trashing those with educations. Apparently, you've never worked with an engineer that has no practical experience (or common sense). Note to Universe: Being Highly Qualified (which, in today's PC world means having papers) does NOT make one competent. But it doesn't necessarily make them INcompetent as Scotty is suggesting. I am so sick of you lying about what I said or meant... You make a good democrat...plonk again.. Gee, you almost lasted 12 hours! YOU posted this: "The difference between Engineers and Technicians is, Engineers can draw it on paper, it takes a technician to actually make it work... Are you saying you don't believe it then? The real world does not exist on paper or in a CAD package. Engineers, in way too large a percentage, live in their paper and CAD virtual world and simply can't fathom something that they could draw not working in the real world. There is no validity to things that don't work in the real world Cite: feel free to cite me, if you wish. I am speaking from personal experience. Simply not true. I've been in the industry all of my life, from being a laborer to an engineer. Which specific industry are you in? Construction. You assemble things that architechs design? -- O M G |
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#213
posted to rec.boats
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What Will GE Force Its People To Drive Now
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 10:33:41 -0500, Oscar wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:24 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 14:18:13 -0500, wrote: On 3/5/2012 1:58 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:33:35 -0500, wrote: On 3/5/2012 11:03 AM, Happy John wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:51:10 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:19:14 -0500, X ` Man wrote: On 3/5/12 9:12 AM, Happy John wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:33:12 -0500, wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:20:52 -0500, Happy wrote: On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 21:57:19 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:48:21 -0500, wrote: They said they were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by the price of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are spending is killing us.... === I think everyone is affected by the price of gas to one extent or another. My suggestion to people who do a lot of driving is to get a more fuel efficient vehicle if at all possible. My truck is getting expensive at $80+ per fill up. I find it very strange that we don't have the large variety of small, fuel efficient diesels like they do in Europe. My gut feel is that it is yet another head-in-the-sand Detroit issue. Last year we drove a full size Volkswagon diesel van through the mountains of France, Switzerland and northern Italy. It had plenty of power, seating for 6 adults, and a huge amount of luggage space. Average fuel economy was better than 20 mpg. Good point. If the VW diesel van had not been withdrawn from the US market, that's probably what we'd have been doing our camping in. Of course, the Mercedes Sprinter is available, but they ain't cheap. What you just bought is way more beterer :-) Well, it's definitely roomierer! Lots of room to store a spare 500-gallon fuel tank? :) Seriously, what sort of mileage do you anticipate? I hope you get at least 10 mpg. I'd be tickled pink if my barge got even close to 10 MPG. I expect to get about 12-14 with the trailer. I'm considering one of these, but don't know if they're worthwhile: http://www.bullydog.com/product.php?ID=2 I think I'll start a separate thread to see if anyone knows anything about them. And, BTW, I don't think Harry can ask something serious, which is why I responded to you. If that thing can get your engine to open it's mouth wider it might be worth the 600 bucks. Otherwise dunno what you can do. A few of the camping forum guys recommend getting the smog crap off the engine. But, they don't get specific enough. You'll void any warranty you have doing that. IIRC, it's a federal rap too.... Maybe that's just if a garage does it... Kevin's warranty comment lead me to get out the warranty book again. I'd thought the warranty was for three years or 36000. But, the Duramax is for five years or 100,000 miles. Now all thoughts of any engine mods are out the window for a couple years! Hey, John, just a warning. Keep calling me who I'm not, I'm sure it's ****ing Kevin off. In order to play your game, asshole, I'll post your phone number, and your address. Go ahead, ****head. Try me. You have just proven yourself to be a worse slimeball than Harry. Plume, you have reached a new low. Can't figure that guy out. I refer to an email from Kevin and iboater gets all ****ed off. Strange as hell. Besides, my phone number and address has been posted here before. |
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#214
posted to rec.boats
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What Will GE Force Its People To Drive Now
In article m,
says... On 3/6/2012 3:28 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In raweb.com, 5@ 5.com says... On 3/6/2012 2:01 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:53:26 -0500, wrote: In , says... On 3/6/2012 9:11 AM, iBoaterer wrote: In , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:06:14 -0500, X ` Man wrote: On 3/5/12 7:43 PM, JustWait wrote: On 3/5/2012 7:26 PM, BAR wrote: In , says... In , says... On 3/4/2012 5:20 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:35:14 -0500, wrote: The jury is in on electric cars. They are the future. The problem is that there hasn't been enough R&D to make them feasible yet. The hybrid, gas-electric, is just a diesel-electric locomotive downsized with the added benefit of pulling the electricity generated from breaking and coasting to charge the batteries. The all electric needs needs work with storing enough power to be useful over a longer period of time and distance. === I think we both agree on most of those points. Where we seem to disagree is whether or not it makes sense to roll out half a loaf. Knowing full well the limitations of half a loaf, I still say yes. The reason being that getting some electric cars on the road starts to get people thinking about the infrastucture issues (like charging stations and better batteries). Same thing with alternative energy like wind and solar. If you don't start rolling some of this out to the public you end up with a perpetual chicken and egg syndrome where you can't have the chicken because you don't yet have an egg and vice versa. There are also a lot of people whose transportation needs would be well served right now by a car like the Volt. The problem is price of course, and prices will not come down until there is economy of scale, with the engineering and tooling costs amortized across a wider base. I could use a Volt right now if the price was right. It would be great for running short errands and the like, running on gas for the occasional longer trip. The problem Wayne, is the administration is trying to make these cars feasible by raising the cost of the alternatives so they have talking points... Right now it takes almost ten years to recover the price of the car, when they get the gas up to 8 dollars a gallon, they can say "look, you recover your investment in three years!"... They said they were gonna' do it. I know most of you here aren't bothered by the price of gas, but that nearly 75 extra dollars a week we are spending is killing us.... New technology bad.... FOX tell me. Never install version 1.0 software. Never purchase the first versions of anything. Let someone else work out the bugs. What is Plum talking about with the "Fox tell me" crap.. The desperate whining of someone with no platform.. "The difference between Engineers and Technicians is, Engineers can draw it on paper, it takes a technician to actually make it work... More of the undereducated trashing those with educations. Apparently, you've never worked with an engineer that has no practical experience (or common sense). Note to Universe: Being Highly Qualified (which, in today's PC world means having papers) does NOT make one competent. But it doesn't necessarily make them INcompetent as Scotty is suggesting. I am so sick of you lying about what I said or meant... You make a good democrat...plonk again.. Gee, you almost lasted 12 hours! YOU posted this: "The difference between Engineers and Technicians is, Engineers can draw it on paper, it takes a technician to actually make it work... Are you saying you don't believe it then? The real world does not exist on paper or in a CAD package. Engineers, in way too large a percentage, live in their paper and CAD virtual world and simply can't fathom something that they could draw not working in the real world. There is no validity to things that don't work in the real world Cite: feel free to cite me, if you wish. I am speaking from personal experience. Simply not true. I've been in the industry all of my life, from being a laborer to an engineer. Which specific industry are you in? Construction. You assemble things that architechs design? No. |
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#215
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
On 3/6/12 6:21 AM, BAR wrote:
In , dump-on- says... On 3/5/12 8:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man wrote: In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up sufficient future supplies. I will grant what you say with this modification: "In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..." ====== Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries. Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices? Of course it does. Does that make them speculators? And when they sell what they bought on a futures market? They're not speculating? We now know why you sold your dad's boat business when he died. You haven't got a clue as to how to operate a profitable business. I sold the boat business because I didn't want to be in the retail boat business. Nothing more. |
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#216
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
In article ,
says... In article , says... In article , says... In article , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:40:14 -0500, X ` Man wrote: In most cases the "speculator" is the logistics manager for some large petroleum consumer who is trying to do their job by locking up sufficient future supplies. I will grant what you say with this modification: "In some cases, the speculator is the logistics manager..." ====== Let's take an example that everyone understands. Most people fill up the tank of their car when it starts getting low, possibly less than a quarter of a tank give or take. However, if there is talk of a possible shortage or a major price increase, many people would start filling up more often, oerhaps when half full or even 3/4ths. Does that make them speculators? The exact same thing happens with logistics managers who are hired to ensure adequate future deliveries. Does that cause an increse in demand and increased auction prices? Of course it does. Does that make them speculators? What's your point? Most people know how commodity suppliers and consumers lock in future prices. The fact is speculators run the show. 70% of oil contracts are held by Wall Street banks and hedge funds. Pure speculation by the one-percenters. They don't produce oil or buy it in bulk. They shuffle and trade paper to suck up money any way they can. The 99-percent provide the money when they pay for oil. That's the face of it. Put all the make-up you want on it. It's still the same face. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/1...explains-more- about.html Are you saying you want all commodities futures trading to be made illegal? The farmers would revolt. Only one who said that is you - cocksucker. Why are you so disagreeable? |
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#217
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
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#218
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
In article ,
says... On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 08:56:06 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 06:50:09 -0500, wrote: Because it's not strategic in the long run. The energy situation has to be viewed as a global chess game. He who finishes with the last oil wins. That is ridiculous. He who finishes last will be the one that has energy resources to continue playing. Those depending on oil will be the first ones out of the game. === Those depending on oil for *energy* will be the first ones out. The real value of oil is as an industrial feedstock and high efficiency transportation fuel (jet aviation). That is a joke, right? If you are desperate for a cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_eng...ive_efficiency http://njchp.rutgers.edu/files/Recip...ng_Engines.pdf Something has to get those vehicles moving from 0 MPH. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg |
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#219
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
In article ,
says... On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:57:23 -0500, BAR wrote: In article , says... On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800, "Califbill" wrote: wrote in message ... On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:36:10 -0500, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/ Told you, and you laughed... snerk Sometimes it pays to look at the world with an open mind... Has nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with the sales. It has everything to do with the COST of the technology tho. Basically the problem is battery cost vs price. These things are rich man's toys. If saving money is your objective, buy a Cruze and put the left over $20,000-30,000 toward gas. I understand the government will subsidize your electric car purchase to make that price delta look more attractive but that does not reduce the cost, it only transfers it to people who can't afford to buy one. ----------------------------------- Very true. Look at the subsidy for a Tesla. Average income of a Tesla buyer? $250k. As to technology. In 1919 an electric car got 30 miles to the charge. What does a Volt get? 30 miles. Not a lot of technology improvement in nearly a 100 years. Still down to battery technology. Plus where is the power to charge going to come from? They say no pollution. What about that coal or oil fired generating plant? Actually they had a range of about 100 miles, but you'd probably bitch about the 20 mph top speed, the eisenglass windows, and no gasoline backup. It appears that the same problems they were having 100 years ago with electric vehicles are the same problems they have today. http://inventors.about.com/od/estart...c-Vehicles.htm The initiation of mass production of internal combustion engine vehicles by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely available and affordable in the $500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the price of the less efficiently produced electric vehicles continued to rise. In 1912, an electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a gasoline car sold for $650. I'm waiting on the fuel cell. You people talk like the Wright Brothers were idiots for not building the 747, first. Maybe Edison should have invented the halogen bulb, first. You will notice that the Wright brothers plane runs on the same fuel that today's 747 runs on. I don't know where you came up with that gem of misinformation, but it is demonstrably totally wrong. (Like the rest of your assertions.) The response you'll type to this will be possible because of all of the money spent 50+ years ago on the space program, which a lot of people said was idiotic and useless. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet Things change and the gas station as we know it is on the same path as the blacksmith at the end of the 19th century. The fueling station will not change for another 50 years. You will soon be proven wrong. Look for LPG light trucks and cars in the next model year or so, with road tractors soon to follow. It will be a small leap to add electrical power. http://www.extraordinaryroadtrip.org/research- library/technology/liqufied-petroleum/ad-draw.asp The drawbacks of LPG include: In cold conditions, below 32 degrees Fahrenheit, starting could be a problem because of the low vapor pressure of propane at low temperatures. One gallon of LPG contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline. The driving range of a propane vehicle is about 14 percent lower than a comparable gasoline-powered vehicle. LPG is generally higher priced than other fuel alternatives such as CNG and gasoline. There are over 4,000 LPG refueling sites in the US, more than all of the other alternative fuels combined. Most of these stations, however, are not readily available to consumers on a 24/7 basis. This is one of the reasons why most on-road applications are bi-fuel vehicles, which burn LPG and gasoline. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg You will notice that the Lion battery is way down near 0,0. The Lion battery's days are numbered. Better technology is just around the corner. They are working on the heat problem. They haven't come up with anything better, NiMh isn't any better. The plastic batteries are not ready for prime time. And the ceramic batteries are not cost effective to manufacture. |
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#220
posted to rec.boats
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Told you the Volt was dead...
On Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:23:17 -0500, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 13:11:08 -0500, Wayne.B wrote: On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 09:53:09 -0500, oscar wrote: What's the point of selling this country's natural resources overseas? I hope your answer isn't "making money." Why? === Because it's not strategic in the long run. The energy situation has to be viewed as a global chess game. He who finishes with the last oil wins. That is ridiculous. He who finishes last will be the one that has energy resources to continue playing. Those depending on oil will be the first ones out of the game. What do you know about hydrogen fuel cells? Promising technology, not ready for prime time unfortunately. What do you know about nuclear powered planes and cars? That's a real long shot unless someone comes up with small scale fusion. Right now they've been working on large scale fusion for over 50 years and we're not even close yet. Like I said however, the real value of oil in the long term is not as a fuel. |
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