"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

In article m,

says...

On 3/8/2012 3:54 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:23:07 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 12:07 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:03:20 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:04:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 8:49 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:53:44 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:25:15 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/7/2012 1:33 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
web.com,

says...

On 3/7/2012 8:46 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
,

says...

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:57:23 -0500,

wrote:

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800,
"Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:36:10 -0500,

wrote:

In ,

says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed...snerk
Sometimes it pays to look
at the
world with an open mind...

Has nothing to do with the technology and
everything to do with
the
sales.

It has everything to do with the COST of the
technology tho.

Basically the problem is battery cost vs
price.
These things are rich man's toys. If saving
money
is
your
objective,
buy a Cruze and put the left over
$20,000-30,000
toward gas.

I understand the government will subsidize
your
electric car
purchase
to make that price delta look more
attractive
but
that does not
reduce
the cost, it only transfers it to people who
can't
afford to buy
one.


-----------------------------------
Very true. Look at the subsidy for a Tesla.
Average income of a
Tesla
buyer? $250k. As to technology. In 1919
an
electric car got 30
miles to
the charge. What does a Volt get? 30
miles.
Not
a
lot of
technology
improvement in nearly a 100 years. Still
down
to
battery
technology. Plus
where is the power to charge going to come
from?
They say no
pollution.
What about that coal or oil fired generating
plant?

Actually they had a range of about 100 miles,
but
you'd probably
bitch
about the 20 mph top speed, the eisenglass
windows,
and no gasoline
backup.

It appears that the same problems they were
having
100
years ago
with
electric vehicles are the same problems they
have
today.

http://inventors.about.com/od/estart...c-Vehicles.htm

The initiation of mass production of internal
combustion engine
vehicles
by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely
available
and
affordable in
the
$500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the
price
of
the less
efficiently produced electric vehicles
continued
to
rise. In 1912,
an
electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a
gasoline
car sold for
$650.

I'm waiting on the fuel cell. You people talk
like
the Wright
Brothers
were idiots for not building the 747, first.
Maybe
Edison should
have
invented the halogen bulb, first.

You will notice that the Wright brothers plane
runs
on
the same fuel
that today's 747 runs on.

I don't know where you came up with that gem of
misinformation, but
it
is demonstrably totally wrong. (Like the rest
of
your
assertions.)

The response you'll type to this will be
possible
because of all of
the money spent 50+ years ago on the space
program,
which a lot of
people said was idiotic and useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Things change and the gas station as we know
it
is
on
the same path
as
the blacksmith at the end of the 19th
century.

The fueling station will not change for
another
50
years.

You will soon be proven wrong. Look for LPG
light
trucks and cars in
the next model year or so, with road tractors
soon
to
follow. It will
be a small leap to add electrical power.

http://www.extraordinaryroadtrip.org/research-
library/technology/liqufied-petroleum/ad-draw.asp

The drawbacks of LPG include:

In cold conditions, below 32 degrees
Fahrenheit, starting could
be a
problem because of the low vapor pressure of
propane
at
low
temperatures.
One gallon of LPG contains less energy
than
a
gallon of
gasoline.
The driving range of a propane vehicle is about
14
percent lower than
a
comparable gasoline-powered vehicle.
LPG is generally higher priced than
other
fuel
alternatives such
as
CNG and gasoline.
There are over 4,000 LPG refueling
sites
in
the US, more than
all of
the other alternative fuels combined. Most of
these
stations, however,
are not readily available to consumers on a 24/7
basis.
This is one of
the reasons why most on-road applications are
bi-fuel
vehicles, which
burn LPG and gasoline.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg

You will notice that the Lion battery is way
down
near
0,0.

The Lion battery's days are numbered. Better
technology
is just
around
the corner.

They are working on the heat problem. They
haven't
come
up with
anything
better, NiMh isn't any better. The plastic
batteries
are
not ready for
prime time. And the ceramic batteries are not
cost
effective to
manufacture.

LPG is NOT higher priced than gasoline.

By what measure?

Cost.

Cost per gallon? Cost per pound? Engineers are
supposed
to
be precise
and un ambiguous. So far you ain't doin so good.

Does it matter? Considering the current respective
costs,
cheaper is
cheaper.

At this time it is cheaper per gallon.

At this time it is cheaper per pound.

At this time it is cheaper in cost per distance
covered.

At this time it is cheaper in BTU consumed.

It is cheaper to use as a fuel.
----------------------------------------
Cost per MPG? LPG is about $3+ around here.

$3 ? It costs $60 to fill a 20# grill tank? Holy
crap!
I
can
get one
filled, retail, for a little over $14.00, including
tax.

I buy 33# for about the same price including tax,
delivered.
(This
company won't do consumer tanks.) Who knows what the
stuff
really
costs? And what the markup is.

Realize that $3 per gallon at 4 1/2 gallons equals
$13.50

Maybe we need clarification on whether it is $3.00 per
gallon
or
$3.00
per pound. Normally, one purchases LPG per pound, not
gallon.
Tanks
are size by pound, not gallon. Buying a gallon of
product,
without
control of density, is pretty lame.

In any case, when buying small quantities, you are
paying
about
twice
what the product can be bought for (retail) in larger
quantities.

Storage tanks are sized in cubic feet.
Propane id dispensed by the gallon from the tank.
Usually, but not always, larger packages of something are
sold
at
lower
per unit prices than smaller packages.

Sure looks like these storage tanks are being sold size by
the
gallon.
http://www.storagetankspropane.com/inventory.php

Stationary propane is dispensed from the tank by molecule,
metered
by
the gallon, and charged by the pound. Check with your
local
distributor, better yet, just watch them fill a tank. If
it
doesn't
have an over-pressure shutoff, they will fill the tank by
weight.
Otherwise, they just pump until it won't take any more.

Yep, agreed. Where I buy mine, they do just exactly that.
By
the
way, if
you go to someplace where you exchange your 20# empty for a
"filled"
one, you are getting ripped off. They fill those to 18#
claiming
it's
for safety. I go to Ace where I get a real 20# refill.




Look up OPD. then go discuss what you find with your nitwit
friend.
I'll
leave you two to jerk each other off.

What part of "According to statements appearing on the two
companies?
websites, in 2008 both reduced the amount of propane in their
?full?
tanks sold consumers ..." didn't you get?

OPDs have been required since 2002, so it has nothing to do
with
short
fills.

A 20# LPG tank is made to HOLD 20#, that is why it has a tare
weight
stamped on it. There is a void space in excess of the 20#
amount
to
account for the 80% fill. OPDs became necessary because
people
were
filling 20# tanks IN EXCESS of 20#.

Wow, I see old Oscar is getting all shook up!

Your task was to show that lpg is cheaper to use than gasoline.
You
haven't proved your point. I guess I was expecting too much of
you.

I don't think he understands the concept.

Sure I do, it's very easy to see that LPG is cheaper per energy unit
than gasoline.


---------------------------------
You get 30% or less mileage per gallon. If a lot of cars started
burning
LPG I bet you would see the price go up at least $0.50 a gallon in
state
and
federal motor fuel taxes. Add in those costs and what is the cost
per
mile
for fuel?

Nothing but speculation.


-----------------------------------
You do not think that the governments will give up those road taxes?

What I think has no bearing on anything. I can't see into the future.
Again, it's speculation.


---------------------------------------
Very true with you. Probably why you are broke, as you can not see the
future via trends, etc.

Oh, so you are claiming to be able to look into the future, eh? Then you
should be the richest man on earth.


---------------------------------------------------
Nope, but you can see trends and move your investments to protect them or
make better money. Like Bonds. Bad investment now as the rates are so
low,
they can only go up. And unless you are going to buy and hold until
maturity, you are going to lose money selling the bond.

That's called common sense.


--------------------------a
Nope, that is analyzing trends.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

In article m,

says...

On 3/8/2012 3:54 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:23:07 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 12:07 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:03:20 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:04:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 8:49 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:53:44 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:25:15 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/7/2012 1:33 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
web.com,

says...

On 3/7/2012 8:46 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
,

says...

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:57:23 -0500,

wrote:

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800,
"Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:36:10 -0500,

wrote:

In ,

says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed...snerk
Sometimes it pays to look
at the
world with an open mind...

Has nothing to do with the technology and
everything to do with
the
sales.

It has everything to do with the COST of the
technology tho.

Basically the problem is battery cost vs
price.
These things are rich man's toys. If saving
money
is
your
objective,
buy a Cruze and put the left over
$20,000-30,000
toward gas.

I understand the government will subsidize
your
electric car
purchase
to make that price delta look more
attractive
but
that does not
reduce
the cost, it only transfers it to people who
can't
afford to buy
one.


-----------------------------------
Very true. Look at the subsidy for a Tesla.
Average income of a
Tesla
buyer? $250k. As to technology. In 1919
an
electric car got 30
miles to
the charge. What does a Volt get? 30
miles.
Not
a
lot of
technology
improvement in nearly a 100 years. Still
down
to
battery
technology. Plus
where is the power to charge going to come
from?
They say no
pollution.
What about that coal or oil fired generating
plant?

Actually they had a range of about 100 miles,
but
you'd probably
bitch
about the 20 mph top speed, the eisenglass
windows,
and no gasoline
backup.

It appears that the same problems they were
having
100
years ago
with
electric vehicles are the same problems they
have
today.

http://inventors.about.com/od/estart...c-Vehicles.htm

The initiation of mass production of internal
combustion engine
vehicles
by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely
available
and
affordable in
the
$500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the
price
of
the less
efficiently produced electric vehicles
continued
to
rise. In 1912,
an
electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a
gasoline
car sold for
$650.

I'm waiting on the fuel cell. You people talk
like
the Wright
Brothers
were idiots for not building the 747, first.
Maybe
Edison should
have
invented the halogen bulb, first.

You will notice that the Wright brothers plane
runs
on
the same fuel
that today's 747 runs on.

I don't know where you came up with that gem of
misinformation, but
it
is demonstrably totally wrong. (Like the rest
of
your
assertions.)

The response you'll type to this will be
possible
because of all of
the money spent 50+ years ago on the space
program,
which a lot of
people said was idiotic and useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Things change and the gas station as we know
it
is
on
the same path
as
the blacksmith at the end of the 19th
century.

The fueling station will not change for
another
50
years.

You will soon be proven wrong. Look for LPG
light
trucks and cars in
the next model year or so, with road tractors
soon
to
follow. It will
be a small leap to add electrical power.

http://www.extraordinaryroadtrip.org/research-
library/technology/liqufied-petroleum/ad-draw.asp

The drawbacks of LPG include:

In cold conditions, below 32 degrees
Fahrenheit, starting could
be a
problem because of the low vapor pressure of
propane
at
low
temperatures.
One gallon of LPG contains less energy
than
a
gallon of
gasoline.
The driving range of a propane vehicle is about
14
percent lower than
a
comparable gasoline-powered vehicle.
LPG is generally higher priced than
other
fuel
alternatives such
as
CNG and gasoline.
There are over 4,000 LPG refueling
sites
in
the US, more than
all of
the other alternative fuels combined. Most of
these
stations, however,
are not readily available to consumers on a 24/7
basis.
This is one of
the reasons why most on-road applications are
bi-fuel
vehicles, which
burn LPG and gasoline.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg

You will notice that the Lion battery is way
down
near
0,0.

The Lion battery's days are numbered. Better
technology
is just
around
the corner.

They are working on the heat problem. They
haven't
come
up with
anything
better, NiMh isn't any better. The plastic
batteries
are
not ready for
prime time. And the ceramic batteries are not
cost
effective to
manufacture.

LPG is NOT higher priced than gasoline.

By what measure?

Cost.

Cost per gallon? Cost per pound? Engineers are
supposed
to
be precise
and un ambiguous. So far you ain't doin so good.

Does it matter? Considering the current respective
costs,
cheaper is
cheaper.

At this time it is cheaper per gallon.

At this time it is cheaper per pound.

At this time it is cheaper in cost per distance
covered.

At this time it is cheaper in BTU consumed.

It is cheaper to use as a fuel.
----------------------------------------
Cost per MPG? LPG is about $3+ around here.

$3 ? It costs $60 to fill a 20# grill tank? Holy
crap!
I
can
get one
filled, retail, for a little over $14.00, including
tax.

I buy 33# for about the same price including tax,
delivered.
(This
company won't do consumer tanks.) Who knows what the
stuff
really
costs? And what the markup is.

Realize that $3 per gallon at 4 1/2 gallons equals
$13.50

Maybe we need clarification on whether it is $3.00 per
gallon
or
$3.00
per pound. Normally, one purchases LPG per pound, not
gallon.
Tanks
are size by pound, not gallon. Buying a gallon of
product,
without
control of density, is pretty lame.

In any case, when buying small quantities, you are
paying
about
twice
what the product can be bought for (retail) in larger
quantities.

Storage tanks are sized in cubic feet.
Propane id dispensed by the gallon from the tank.
Usually, but not always, larger packages of something are
sold
at
lower
per unit prices than smaller packages.

Sure looks like these storage tanks are being sold size by
the
gallon.
http://www.storagetankspropane.com/inventory.php

Stationary propane is dispensed from the tank by molecule,
metered
by
the gallon, and charged by the pound. Check with your
local
distributor, better yet, just watch them fill a tank. If
it
doesn't
have an over-pressure shutoff, they will fill the tank by
weight.
Otherwise, they just pump until it won't take any more.

Yep, agreed. Where I buy mine, they do just exactly that.
By
the
way, if
you go to someplace where you exchange your 20# empty for a
"filled"
one, you are getting ripped off. They fill those to 18#
claiming
it's
for safety. I go to Ace where I get a real 20# refill.




Look up OPD. then go discuss what you find with your nitwit
friend.
I'll
leave you two to jerk each other off.

What part of "According to statements appearing on the two
companies?
websites, in 2008 both reduced the amount of propane in their
?full?
tanks sold consumers ..." didn't you get?

OPDs have been required since 2002, so it has nothing to do
with
short
fills.

A 20# LPG tank is made to HOLD 20#, that is why it has a tare
weight
stamped on it. There is a void space in excess of the 20#
amount
to
account for the 80% fill. OPDs became necessary because
people
were
filling 20# tanks IN EXCESS of 20#.

Wow, I see old Oscar is getting all shook up!

Your task was to show that lpg is cheaper to use than gasoline.
You
haven't proved your point. I guess I was expecting too much of
you.

I don't think he understands the concept.

Sure I do, it's very easy to see that LPG is cheaper per energy unit
than gasoline.


---------------------------------
You get 30% or less mileage per gallon. If a lot of cars started
burning
LPG I bet you would see the price go up at least $0.50 a gallon in
state
and
federal motor fuel taxes. Add in those costs and what is the cost
per
mile
for fuel?

Nothing but speculation.


-----------------------------------
You do not think that the governments will give up those road taxes?

What I think has no bearing on anything. I can't see into the future.
Again, it's speculation.


---------------------------------------
Very true with you. Probably why you are broke, as you can not see the
future via trends, etc.

Oh, so you are claiming to be able to look into the future, eh? Then you
should be the richest man on earth.


---------------------------------------------------
Nope, but you can see trends and move your investments to protect them or
make better money. Like Bonds. Bad investment now as the rates are so
low,
they can only go up. And unless you are going to buy and hold until
maturity, you are going to lose money selling the bond.

That's called common sense.


--------------------------a
Nope, that is analyzing trends.

Which is common sense.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

In article m,

says...

On 3/8/2012 3:54 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:23:07 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 12:07 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:03:20 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:04:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 8:49 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:53:44 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:25:15 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/7/2012 1:33 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
web.com,

says...

On 3/7/2012 8:46 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
,

says...

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:57:23 -0500,

wrote:

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800,
"Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:36:10 -0500,

wrote:

In ,

says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed...snerk
Sometimes it pays to look
at the
world with an open mind...

Has nothing to do with the technology and
everything to do with
the
sales.

It has everything to do with the COST of
the
technology tho.

Basically the problem is battery cost vs
price.
These things are rich man's toys. If
saving
money
is
your
objective,
buy a Cruze and put the left over
$20,000-30,000
toward gas.

I understand the government will subsidize
your
electric car
purchase
to make that price delta look more
attractive
but
that does not
reduce
the cost, it only transfers it to people
who
can't
afford to buy
one.


-----------------------------------
Very true. Look at the subsidy for a
Tesla.
Average income of a
Tesla
buyer? $250k. As to technology. In 1919
an
electric car got 30
miles to
the charge. What does a Volt get? 30
miles.
Not
a
lot of
technology
improvement in nearly a 100 years. Still
down
to
battery
technology. Plus
where is the power to charge going to come
from?
They say no
pollution.
What about that coal or oil fired
generating
plant?

Actually they had a range of about 100
miles,
but
you'd probably
bitch
about the 20 mph top speed, the eisenglass
windows,
and no gasoline
backup.

It appears that the same problems they were
having
100
years ago
with
electric vehicles are the same problems they
have
today.

http://inventors.about.com/od/estart...c-Vehicles.htm

The initiation of mass production of
internal
combustion engine
vehicles
by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely
available
and
affordable in
the
$500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the
price
of
the less
efficiently produced electric vehicles
continued
to
rise. In 1912,
an
electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a
gasoline
car sold for
$650.

I'm waiting on the fuel cell. You people
talk
like
the Wright
Brothers
were idiots for not building the 747,
first.
Maybe
Edison should
have
invented the halogen bulb, first.

You will notice that the Wright brothers
plane
runs
on
the same fuel
that today's 747 runs on.

I don't know where you came up with that gem
of
misinformation, but
it
is demonstrably totally wrong. (Like the rest
of
your
assertions.)

The response you'll type to this will be
possible
because of all of
the money spent 50+ years ago on the space
program,
which a lot of
people said was idiotic and useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Things change and the gas station as we
know
it
is
on
the same path
as
the blacksmith at the end of the 19th
century.

The fueling station will not change for
another
50
years.

You will soon be proven wrong. Look for LPG
light
trucks and cars in
the next model year or so, with road tractors
soon
to
follow. It will
be a small leap to add electrical power.

http://www.extraordinaryroadtrip.org/research-
library/technology/liqufied-petroleum/ad-draw.asp

The drawbacks of LPG include:

In cold conditions, below 32 degrees
Fahrenheit, starting could
be a
problem because of the low vapor pressure of
propane
at
low
temperatures.
One gallon of LPG contains less
energy
than
a
gallon of
gasoline.
The driving range of a propane vehicle is
about
14
percent lower than
a
comparable gasoline-powered vehicle.
LPG is generally higher priced than
other
fuel
alternatives such
as
CNG and gasoline.
There are over 4,000 LPG refueling
sites
in
the US, more than
all of
the other alternative fuels combined. Most of
these
stations, however,
are not readily available to consumers on a
24/7
basis.
This is one of
the reasons why most on-road applications are
bi-fuel
vehicles, which
burn LPG and gasoline.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg

You will notice that the Lion battery is way
down
near
0,0.

The Lion battery's days are numbered. Better
technology
is just
around
the corner.

They are working on the heat problem. They
haven't
come
up with
anything
better, NiMh isn't any better. The plastic
batteries
are
not ready for
prime time. And the ceramic batteries are not
cost
effective to
manufacture.

LPG is NOT higher priced than gasoline.

By what measure?

Cost.

Cost per gallon? Cost per pound? Engineers are
supposed
to
be precise
and un ambiguous. So far you ain't doin so good.

Does it matter? Considering the current respective
costs,
cheaper is
cheaper.

At this time it is cheaper per gallon.

At this time it is cheaper per pound.

At this time it is cheaper in cost per distance
covered.

At this time it is cheaper in BTU consumed.

It is cheaper to use as a fuel.
----------------------------------------
Cost per MPG? LPG is about $3+ around here.

$3 ? It costs $60 to fill a 20# grill tank? Holy
crap!
I
can
get one
filled, retail, for a little over $14.00, including
tax.

I buy 33# for about the same price including tax,
delivered.
(This
company won't do consumer tanks.) Who knows what the
stuff
really
costs? And what the markup is.

Realize that $3 per gallon at 4 1/2 gallons equals
$13.50

Maybe we need clarification on whether it is $3.00 per
gallon
or
$3.00
per pound. Normally, one purchases LPG per pound, not
gallon.
Tanks
are size by pound, not gallon. Buying a gallon of
product,
without
control of density, is pretty lame.

In any case, when buying small quantities, you are
paying
about
twice
what the product can be bought for (retail) in larger
quantities.

Storage tanks are sized in cubic feet.
Propane id dispensed by the gallon from the tank.
Usually, but not always, larger packages of something
are
sold
at
lower
per unit prices than smaller packages.

Sure looks like these storage tanks are being sold size
by
the
gallon.
http://www.storagetankspropane.com/inventory.php

Stationary propane is dispensed from the tank by
molecule,
metered
by
the gallon, and charged by the pound. Check with your
local
distributor, better yet, just watch them fill a tank. If
it
doesn't
have an over-pressure shutoff, they will fill the tank
by
weight.
Otherwise, they just pump until it won't take any more.

Yep, agreed. Where I buy mine, they do just exactly that.
By
the
way, if
you go to someplace where you exchange your 20# empty for
a
"filled"
one, you are getting ripped off. They fill those to 18#
claiming
it's
for safety. I go to Ace where I get a real 20# refill.




Look up OPD. then go discuss what you find with your
nitwit
friend.
I'll
leave you two to jerk each other off.

What part of "According to statements appearing on the two
companies?
websites, in 2008 both reduced the amount of propane in
their
?full?
tanks sold consumers ..." didn't you get?

OPDs have been required since 2002, so it has nothing to do
with
short
fills.

A 20# LPG tank is made to HOLD 20#, that is why it has a
tare
weight
stamped on it. There is a void space in excess of the 20#
amount
to
account for the 80% fill. OPDs became necessary because
people
were
filling 20# tanks IN EXCESS of 20#.

Wow, I see old Oscar is getting all shook up!

Your task was to show that lpg is cheaper to use than
gasoline.
You
haven't proved your point. I guess I was expecting too much of
you.

I don't think he understands the concept.

Sure I do, it's very easy to see that LPG is cheaper per energy
unit
than gasoline.


---------------------------------
You get 30% or less mileage per gallon. If a lot of cars started
burning
LPG I bet you would see the price go up at least $0.50 a gallon in
state
and
federal motor fuel taxes. Add in those costs and what is the cost
per
mile
for fuel?

Nothing but speculation.


-----------------------------------
You do not think that the governments will give up those road taxes?

What I think has no bearing on anything. I can't see into the future.
Again, it's speculation.


---------------------------------------
Very true with you. Probably why you are broke, as you can not see
the
future via trends, etc.

Oh, so you are claiming to be able to look into the future, eh? Then you
should be the richest man on earth.


---------------------------------------------------
Nope, but you can see trends and move your investments to protect them
or
make better money. Like Bonds. Bad investment now as the rates are so
low,
they can only go up. And unless you are going to buy and hold until
maturity, you are going to lose money selling the bond.

That's called common sense.


--------------------------a
Nope, that is analyzing trends.

Which is common sense.
-----------------------------------------
Not at all.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,

says...

In article m,

says...

On 3/8/2012 3:54 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:23:07 -0500, wrote:

On 3/8/2012 12:07 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:03:20 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 10:29 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:04:11 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/8/2012 8:49 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:53:44 -0800, "Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 14:25:15 -0500,
wrote:

On 3/7/2012 1:33 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
web.com,

says...

On 3/7/2012 8:46 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In
,

says...

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:57:23 -0500,

wrote:

In
,
says...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:00:39 -0800,
"Califbill"
wrote:

wrote in message
...

On Sun, 4 Mar 2012 10:36:10 -0500,

wrote:

In ,

says...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2012...lectric-lemon/


Told you, and you laughed...snerk
Sometimes it pays to look
at the
world with an open mind...

Has nothing to do with the technology and
everything to do with
the
sales.

It has everything to do with the COST of
the
technology tho.

Basically the problem is battery cost vs
price.
These things are rich man's toys. If
saving
money
is
your
objective,
buy a Cruze and put the left over
$20,000-30,000
toward gas.

I understand the government will subsidize
your
electric car
purchase
to make that price delta look more
attractive
but
that does not
reduce
the cost, it only transfers it to people
who
can't
afford to buy
one.


-----------------------------------
Very true. Look at the subsidy for a
Tesla.
Average income of a
Tesla
buyer? $250k. As to technology. In 1919
an
electric car got 30
miles to
the charge. What does a Volt get? 30
miles.
Not
a
lot of
technology
improvement in nearly a 100 years. Still
down
to
battery
technology. Plus
where is the power to charge going to come
from?
They say no
pollution.
What about that coal or oil fired
generating
plant?

Actually they had a range of about 100
miles,
but
you'd probably
bitch
about the 20 mph top speed, the eisenglass
windows,
and no gasoline
backup.

It appears that the same problems they were
having
100
years ago
with
electric vehicles are the same problems they
have
today.

http://inventors.about.com/od/estart...c-Vehicles.htm

The initiation of mass production of
internal
combustion engine
vehicles
by Henry Ford made these vehicles widely
available
and
affordable in
the
$500 to $1,000 price range. By contrast, the
price
of
the less
efficiently produced electric vehicles
continued
to
rise. In 1912,
an
electric roadster sold for $1,750, while a
gasoline
car sold for
$650.

I'm waiting on the fuel cell. You people
talk
like
the Wright
Brothers
were idiots for not building the 747,
first.
Maybe
Edison should
have
invented the halogen bulb, first.

You will notice that the Wright brothers
plane
runs
on
the same fuel
that today's 747 runs on.

I don't know where you came up with that gem
of
misinformation, but
it
is demonstrably totally wrong. (Like the rest
of
your
assertions.)

The response you'll type to this will be
possible
because of all of
the money spent 50+ years ago on the space
program,
which a lot of
people said was idiotic and useless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Internet

Things change and the gas station as we
know
it
is
on
the same path
as
the blacksmith at the end of the 19th
century.

The fueling station will not change for
another
50
years.

You will soon be proven wrong. Look for LPG
light
trucks and cars in
the next model year or so, with road tractors
soon
to
follow. It will
be a small leap to add electrical power.

http://www.extraordinaryroadtrip.org/research-
library/technology/liqufied-petroleum/ad-draw.asp

The drawbacks of LPG include:

In cold conditions, below 32 degrees
Fahrenheit, starting could
be a
problem because of the low vapor pressure of
propane
at
low
temperatures.
One gallon of LPG contains less
energy
than
a
gallon of
gasoline.
The driving range of a propane vehicle is
about
14
percent lower than
a
comparable gasoline-powered vehicle.
LPG is generally higher priced than
other
fuel
alternatives such
as
CNG and gasoline.
There are over 4,000 LPG refueling
sites
in
the US, more than
all of
the other alternative fuels combined. Most of
these
stations, however,
are not readily available to consumers on a
24/7
basis.
This is one of
the reasons why most on-road applications are
bi-fuel
vehicles, which
burn LPG and gasoline.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Energy_density.svg

You will notice that the Lion battery is way
down
near
0,0.

The Lion battery's days are numbered. Better
technology
is just
around
the corner.

They are working on the heat problem. They
haven't
come
up with
anything
better, NiMh isn't any better. The plastic
batteries
are
not ready for
prime time. And the ceramic batteries are not
cost
effective to
manufacture.

LPG is NOT higher priced than gasoline.

By what measure?

Cost.

Cost per gallon? Cost per pound? Engineers are
supposed
to
be precise
and un ambiguous. So far you ain't doin so good.

Does it matter? Considering the current respective
costs,
cheaper is
cheaper.

At this time it is cheaper per gallon.

At this time it is cheaper per pound.

At this time it is cheaper in cost per distance
covered.

At this time it is cheaper in BTU consumed.

It is cheaper to use as a fuel.
----------------------------------------
Cost per MPG? LPG is about $3+ around here.

$3 ? It costs $60 to fill a 20# grill tank? Holy
crap!
I
can
get one
filled, retail, for a little over $14.00, including
tax.

I buy 33# for about the same price including tax,
delivered.
(This
company won't do consumer tanks.) Who knows what the
stuff
really
costs? And what the markup is.

Realize that $3 per gallon at 4 1/2 gallons equals
$13.50

Maybe we need clarification on whether it is $3.00 per
gallon
or
$3.00
per pound. Normally, one purchases LPG per pound, not
gallon.
Tanks
are size by pound, not gallon. Buying a gallon of
product,
without
control of density, is pretty lame.

In any case, when buying small quantities, you are
paying
about
twice
what the product can be bought for (retail) in larger
quantities.

Storage tanks are sized in cubic feet.
Propane id dispensed by the gallon from the tank.
Usually, but not always, larger packages of something
are
sold
at
lower
per unit prices than smaller packages.

Sure looks like these storage tanks are being sold size
by
the
gallon.
http://www.storagetankspropane.com/inventory.php

Stationary propane is dispensed from the tank by
molecule,
metered
by
the gallon, and charged by the pound. Check with your
local
distributor, better yet, just watch them fill a tank. If
it
doesn't
have an over-pressure shutoff, they will fill the tank
by
weight.
Otherwise, they just pump until it won't take any more.

Yep, agreed. Where I buy mine, they do just exactly that.
By
the
way, if
you go to someplace where you exchange your 20# empty for
a
"filled"
one, you are getting ripped off. They fill those to 18#
claiming
it's
for safety. I go to Ace where I get a real 20# refill.




Look up OPD. then go discuss what you find with your
nitwit
friend.
I'll
leave you two to jerk each other off.

What part of "According to statements appearing on the two
companies?
websites, in 2008 both reduced the amount of propane in
their
?full?
tanks sold consumers ..." didn't you get?

OPDs have been required since 2002, so it has nothing to do
with
short
fills.

A 20# LPG tank is made to HOLD 20#, that is why it has a
tare
weight
stamped on it. There is a void space in excess of the 20#
amount
to
account for the 80% fill. OPDs became necessary because
people
were
filling 20# tanks IN EXCESS of 20#.

Wow, I see old Oscar is getting all shook up!

Your task was to show that lpg is cheaper to use than
gasoline.
You
haven't proved your point. I guess I was expecting too much of
you.

I don't think he understands the concept.

Sure I do, it's very easy to see that LPG is cheaper per energy
unit
than gasoline.


---------------------------------
You get 30% or less mileage per gallon. If a lot of cars started
burning
LPG I bet you would see the price go up at least $0.50 a gallon in
state
and
federal motor fuel taxes. Add in those costs and what is the cost
per
mile
for fuel?

Nothing but speculation.


-----------------------------------
You do not think that the governments will give up those road taxes?

What I think has no bearing on anything. I can't see into the future.
Again, it's speculation.


---------------------------------------
Very true with you. Probably why you are broke, as you can not see
the
future via trends, etc.

Oh, so you are claiming to be able to look into the future, eh? Then you
should be the richest man on earth.


---------------------------------------------------
Nope, but you can see trends and move your investments to protect them
or
make better money. Like Bonds. Bad investment now as the rates are so
low,
they can only go up. And unless you are going to buy and hold until
maturity, you are going to lose money selling the bond.

That's called common sense.


--------------------------a
Nope, that is analyzing trends.

Which is common sense.
-----------------------------------------
Not at all.

Really? Many, many people have been successful in investing without ever
taken any classes on the subject. It doesn't take much brains to see
trends.

On Thu, 15 Mar 2012 16:35:56 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Nope, but you can see trends and move your investments to protect them
or
make better money. Like Bonds. Bad investment now as the rates are so
low,
they can only go up. And unless you are going to buy and hold until
maturity, you are going to lose money selling the bond.

That's called common sense.


--------------------------a
Nope, that is analyzing trends.

Which is common sense.
-----------------------------------------
Not at all.

Really? Many, many people have been successful in investing without ever
taken any classes on the subject. It doesn't take much brains to see
trends.

===

Perhaps you folks could trim up your replies just a bit ??

On 3/15/2012 6:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:

Perhaps you folks could trim up your replies just a bit ??

Wouldn't that be nice...!

In article , lid says...

On 3/15/2012 6:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:

Perhaps you folks could trim up your replies just a bit ??

Wouldn't that be nice...!

No.